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Sandy - Edmonton
03-08-2005, 11:20 PM
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/CalgarySun/Sports/2005/03/08/953685-sun.html

Some things never change, namely Calgarians with inferiority complex.

Wow, the Brier in cowtown gave away free LRT tickets :rolleyes:

Edmonton broke the attendance record prior to the first rock, while Calgary broke it (at that time) in the final (which wasn't even sold out).

The quotes in that article by that Calgarian are laughable.

When was the last curling team from Calgary to represent Alberta anyways? It's almost always Team Edmonton, for both males and females. (Tom Reed, Kevin Martin, Randy Ferbey, Cathy King, etc etc.)

Opus
03-08-2005, 11:24 PM
link won't work for me Sandy...

Sandy - Edmonton
03-08-2005, 11:29 PM
ooops, fixed it

Opus
03-08-2005, 11:41 PM
"I just can't believe the people who come to watch and they don't know a lot about curling," Bailey said."And the place clears out when they're not playing. If their game finishes early, people leave.

"It's quite something."
and yet supposedly Calgary had better atmosphere? aw, I guess someone needs to buy the broad some fudge and ice-cream to keep her happy....

Angelus
03-08-2005, 11:42 PM
:rofl:

That article isn't worth the paper it's printed on. What a joke.

Esks4ever
03-09-2005, 07:29 AM
What a joke...Edmonton has the top attendance and this year we're shattering it..Calgary can't stand seeing major events taking place in Edmonton over their town..

And I'm sorry Calgary is no hotbed for curling.. I can't even think of the last time a curler from calgary area made it in provinicials..Edmonton is curling hot bed...... the provinicals are the toughest in the country to get out off, yet year after year its an edmonton area rink..
The only bad things with this years brier is the frost.. but thats hardly our fault.. when was the last time we had 5+ degree weather for a 2+ week stretch..

sounds like the writer needs some cheese to go with that whine.

GITC
03-09-2005, 02:07 PM
Wow. Seems a person isn't much entitled to an opinion. The woman was only providing hers. :eek:

How many of you have been to the Brier in either Calgary or Edmonton? It's unlikely that many have been to either one and probably not both so it would seem that somebody who has might just be in a better position to provide an opinion but let's not let that stand in the way of hacking her to bits for stating it... :sure:

Opus
03-09-2005, 02:14 PM
Wow. Seems a person isn't much entitled to an opinion. The woman was only providing hers. :eek:

How many of you have been to the Brier in either Calgary or Edmonton? It's unlikely that many have been to either one and probably not both so it would seem that somebody who has might just be in a better position to provide an opinion but let's not let that stand in the way of hacking her to bits for stating it... :sure:and what was her reasoning? because we don't have a Timmy's inside the arena.....the saddledome has fudge and ice cream? Is she there to watch curling or stuff her face? Oh right, it was the free LRT tickets....:rolleyes:
her opinion is obviously based on homerism.....lets just ignore the fact that Edmonton will (for the second time) shatter the Briar attendance record, yet Calgary could do a better job? Whatever....:rolleyes: they didn't the last time they tried....

GITC
03-09-2005, 02:19 PM
and what was her reasoning? because we don't have a Timmy's inside the arena.....the saddledome has fudge and ice cream? Is she there to watch curling or stuff her face? Oh right, it was the free LRT tickets....:rolleyes:
her opinion is obviously based on homerism.....lets just ignore the fact that Edmonton will (for the second time) shatter the Briar attendance record, yet Calgary could do a better job? Whatever....:rolleyes: they didn't the last time they tried....
Actually, a new attendance record WAS set the last time it was in Calgary....

The point is that the woman is still entitled to her opinion just as anybody else is. Who gives a crap what her motives are? At least she attends the event. If she just goes to drink coffee and eat ice cream, then bully for her.

Doesn't it seem strange that you can't get the product of a major sponsor while at the event? I know that I was extremely pleased to see Crown Royal practically free-flowing everywhere I went at Grey Cup... :D

Opus
03-09-2005, 02:23 PM
Actually, a new attendance record WAS set the last time it was in Calgary....

The point is that the woman is still entitled to her opinion just as anybody else is. Who gives a crap what her motives are? At least she attends the event. If she just goes to drink coffee and eat ice cream, then bully for her.

Doesn't it seem strange that you can't get the product of a major sponsor while at the event? I know that I was extremely pleased to see Crown Royal practically free-flowing everywhere I went at Grey Cup... :DI never said it wasn't......as Sandy stated earlier, they broke it on the last day.....

yes, she's entitled to her opinion, and I'm entitled to roast her for it....since that is my opinion on how she formed her opinion...:D.......so why you knocking our opinion? :lol:

lloyd
03-09-2005, 02:23 PM
She is entitled to her opinion, but I'm just here to say that here opinion sucks. She bases it on Tim Hortons and having to pay 4 bucks to get to and from the arena. Pretty easy to tell that its the Calgary Sun.

Esks4ever
03-09-2005, 02:23 PM
Doesn't it seem strange that you can't get the product of a major sponsor while at the event?



Its a little odd.. but those who go there are there to watch the curling...I'm pretty sure they dont care if theres Tim's coffee or not.

KnuckleChucker
03-09-2005, 02:27 PM
It's curling....hehe.....curling.....Even if Calgary was better then Edmonton...Who the hell cares?????

EskiPhenom
03-09-2005, 02:47 PM
It's curling....hehe.....curling.....Even if Calgary was better then Edmonton...Who the hell cares?????

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Seconded!!!!!!!!! Just like I don't care about the NHL being locked out. Its all about football and swimming, football and swimming :)

KnuckleChucker
03-09-2005, 02:52 PM
Football and Swimmng???? Interesting combo!!

Sandy - Edmonton
03-09-2005, 04:04 PM
Were there Nokia phones at the annual event, when Nokia was the main sponsor?

tony_montana
03-12-2005, 03:23 PM
Were there Nokia phones at the annual event, when Nokia was the main sponsor?

I am sure that some people were carrying them.

eskiegirl
03-12-2005, 09:28 PM
Hi GUys...I'n new to your sit. I didn't have a chance to read the article that was written, but I think I kinda get the jist of it. I actually had a chance to work at the Brier on the weekend doing some promotions and spoke to several travellers on the food topic, Tims ect. and for many people, Rexall denying accesss to Tims or any other food into the event is a real problem. Losts of family and fans from all over are there and spending all day in the Rexall place. After only two days in the I was sick of it. To top it off when you do go out of your way to bring a decent cup of coffee with you, they wont let you in with it.
If we really want to promote events and great things in our city, we have to make it great for the people attending and give them what they want.
We all know what the Stadium would be like if they didn't serve beer Right?

Andrew
03-13-2005, 01:45 AM
Football and Swimmng???? Interesting combo!!
Actually alot of my teammates swim alot too.

Opus
03-14-2005, 12:35 AM
Hi GUys...I'n new to your sit. I didn't have a chance to read the article that was written, but I think I kinda get the jist of it. I actually had a chance to work at the Brier on the weekend doing some promotions and spoke to several travellers on the food topic, Tims ect. and for many people, Rexall denying accesss to Tims or any other food into the event is a real problem. Losts of family and fans from all over are there and spending all day in the Rexall place. After only two days in the I was sick of it. To top it off when you do go out of your way to bring a decent cup of coffee with you, they wont let you in with it.
If we really want to promote events and great things in our city, we have to make it great for the people attending and give them what they want.
We all know what the Stadium would be like if they didn't serve beer Right?were they really denying access to people who were entering with Tim's coffee? that seems kinda odd, I've never had a problem entering there with a bottle of pepsi...:confused:

Sandy - Edmonton
03-14-2005, 01:33 AM
were they really denying access to people who were entering with Tim's coffee? that seems kinda odd, I've never had a problem entering there with a bottle of pepsi...:confused:

You're not allowed to bring in any outside food or drink into the arena (except for perhaps water). Where do you hide your bottles of pepsi? :lol:

Opus
03-14-2005, 08:32 AM
You're not allowed to bring in any outside food or drink into the arena (except for perhaps water). Where do you hide your bottles of pepsi? :lol:If I'm going to an event with my boy we just put everything in a knapsack. When we went to the Monster Jam last month, we had sandwiches, pop, etc.....

I am quite sure that they cannot restrict these items if they do not sell them there (ie. Pepsi Cola). I do undestand that specific containers are restricted, but that is for safety reasons. The same applies at Commonwealth, for years i'd take a 2L of Pepsi in my bag, got searched many times, but as long as it wasn't cracked it was fine.

lloyd
03-14-2005, 12:32 PM
Speaking of Commonwealth, why are they so anal about what kind of stick your flag is on?

Opus
03-14-2005, 12:45 PM
Speaking of Commonwealth, why are they so anal about what kind of stick your flag is on?safety reasons....certain items could be used as a weapon......(eg, hockey sticks)

gizmo fan 2
03-14-2005, 01:03 PM
safety reasons....certain items could be used as a weapon......(eg, hockey sticks)

Can't go wrong with golf ball retrievers. :thup:

esks4life
03-14-2005, 06:13 PM
Speaking of Commonwealth, why are they so anal about what kind of stick your flag is on?
Speaking of flags and sticks, one year at Taylor Field, back in 2002 or 03 I think, the Esks got clobbered by the Riders :( There were these punks sitting behind us jabbing us with these little Rider flags all game. By the 4th qtr I was pissed off to the max at the Esks so I turned around and busted these flag sticks in half and threw them 5 rows down. These punks kept telling me that I owed them 5 bucks. I had a few choice words for them and left. Immature? Yes. But boy, did it feel good. One of a few bad temper moments in my life at TF. :lol:

eskiegirl
03-14-2005, 08:05 PM
You're not allowed to bring in any outside food or drink into the arena (except for perhaps water). Where do you hide your bottles of pepsi? :lol:

Yeah, I need to know, smuggling in good beverages could now become a hobby... :rofl:

Esks4ever
03-14-2005, 08:12 PM
2 cans of beer fit perfectly into a Pringles chip container... - well as long as you eat the chips first :lol:

esks4life
03-14-2005, 08:45 PM
2 cans of beer fit perfectly into a Pringles chip container... - well as long as you eat the chips first :lol:
Excellent idea. I am going to have to try this. :D :thup:

Nanookster
03-14-2005, 09:09 PM
Isn't it funny that we are never jealous of Calgary?

Muley69
03-14-2005, 09:37 PM
Isn't it funny that we are never jealous of Calgary?

I don't know that we honestly have anything to be jealous of...?!?!?


Well, except their warm winter weather and their proximity to the mountains.

calf
03-14-2005, 10:10 PM
Isn't it funny that we are never jealous of Calgary?

I don't think Calgary is really jealous of Edmonton, just like how Edmonton's never really jealous of Calgary - you guys did a fantastic job with the Brier...just one woman connected to the Calgary one acted like a buffoon trying to stroke the job she did.

Opus
03-14-2005, 10:44 PM
I don't think Calgary is really jealous of Edmonton, just like how Edmonton's never really jealous of Calgary - you guys did a fantastic job with the Brier...just one woman connected to the Calgary one acted like a buffoon trying to stroke the job she did.nice post calf, you could have really taken offense to a lot of this thread...shows a lot of class (got ya some rep from me for it) :thup:

calf
03-14-2005, 10:51 PM
nice post calf, you could have really taken offense to a lot of this thread...shows a lot of class (got ya some rep from me for it) :thup:
well, reading through it, I kinda realized that 1) the article was in the Sun, 2) you guys really weren't bashing Calgary but the woman (except for the generalization title of the thread, which I let slide :p ), 3) it got sidetracked into talking about coffee and sneaking stuff into the stadium - a topic that's universal based on different stadium's circumstances...nothing to really take offence on, really.

but if you got into calling everyone backwardsredneckultraconservativecowboyhick a-holes...then I'd be like "it's on"...but not this time. Y'all got lucky this time.

oh, and thanks for the rep :)

Opus
03-14-2005, 10:59 PM
backwardsredneckultraconservativecowboyhick a-holes

hold on.......lemme write this down..... ;) :flame:

gizmo fan 2
03-14-2005, 11:53 PM
hold on.......lemme write this down..... ;) :flame:

:lol: We'll all save that one for Labour Day, don't worry. :thup:

Diesel
03-15-2005, 08:35 AM
I prefer " thoseredbastageheathensheepdippinrodgobblerbovineb uggers" myself :D

gizmo fan 2
03-15-2005, 11:56 AM
I prefer " thoseredbastageheathensheepdippinrodgobblerbovineb uggers" myself :D

:lol: :thup:

eskiegirl
03-16-2005, 12:13 AM
2 cans of beer fit perfectly into a Pringles chip container... - well as long as you eat the chips first :lol:

Excellent idea....thankfully I like pringles. :D

Nanookster
03-21-2005, 03:11 PM
Speaking of flags and sticks, one year at Taylor Field, back in 2002 or 03 I think, the Esks got clobbered by the Riders :( There were these punks sitting behind us jabbing us with these little Rider flags all game. By the 4th qtr I was pissed off to the max at the Esks so I turned around and busted these flag sticks in half and threw them 5 rows down. These punks kept telling me that I owed them 5 bucks. I had a few choice words for them and left. Immature? Yes. But boy, did it feel good. One of a few bad temper moments in my life at TF. :lol:

Rep points!

Nanookster
03-21-2005, 03:12 PM
I don't think Calgary is really jealous of Edmonton, just like how Edmonton's never really jealous of Calgary - you guys did a fantastic job with the Brier...just one woman connected to the Calgary one acted like a buffoon trying to stroke the job she did.

It is a fact that Calgary is hugely jealous of Edmonton.

Muley69
03-21-2005, 09:31 PM
It is a fact that Calgary is hugely jealous of Edmonton.


That's the biggest load of homer B.S. I've ever heard.

What do they have to be jealous of us for?
What do we have to be jealous of them?

Since we're "dealing in facts" here, your response must also be based on quantitative -- rather than qualitative -- measures.

lloyd
03-21-2005, 11:37 PM
That's the biggest load of homer B.S. I've ever heard.

What do they have to be jealous of us for?
What do we have to be jealous of them?

Since we're "dealing in facts" here, your response must also be based on quantitative -- rather than qualitative -- measures.

'tis true. As someone who is relatively unbiased on Calgary/Edmonton, I would say that (Preperation H is good) on the whole Calgary is better than Edmonton, but not by as much as Calgarians would have you think. Edmontons downtown is the only think really holding it back but it looks like the people high up are trying to change that :thup:

Sandy - Edmonton
03-22-2005, 12:25 AM
That's the biggest load of homer B.S. I've ever heard.

What do they have to be jealous of us for?
What do we have to be jealous of them?

Since we're "dealing in facts" here, your response must also be based on quantitative -- rather than qualitative -- measures.

Sports teams and hosting events..

Sometimes I think you're from Calgary Muley. You seemed to be a HUGE stamps fan last year on 13thman

Sandy - Edmonton
03-22-2005, 12:27 AM
'tis true. As someone who is relatively unbiased on Calgary/Edmonton, I would say that (Preperation H is good) on the whole Calgary is better than Edmonton, but not by as much as Calgarians would have you think. Edmontons downtown is the only think really holding it back but it looks like the people high up are trying to change that :thup:

Disagree. Edmonton has plenty of things better than Calgary.

Culture, sports, better University, etc.

Of Course Calgary has some things better than us.

They're both good cities, but in no way can one be clearly better than the other.

earl2
03-22-2005, 08:34 AM
I don't live in Edmonton or Calgary, so I like to think I'm fairly unbiased in comparing the cities, and frankly I don't see much of a difference. Calgary has the mountains in the skyline, Edmonton has a beautiful river valley. Calgary has a world-class zoo, Edmonton has world class university. WEM vs. Calgary's downtown district.
When it comes to hosting sporting events, Calgary did an amazing job holding the Olympics. Edmonton has held Commonwealth Games, World Track and Field Championships, world class soccer facilities etc. While Edmonton's success with local teams and athletes (with regards to winning championships) may be more impressive than Calgary, they have had their fair share of success as well.
I, for one, have no problem with the city of Calgary. But theres idiots in both cities who say and do stupid things. And while I hate the Stamps, their successes only help fuel the battle of Alberta, which is a good thing. And I think that most people feel the same as me.

Opus
03-22-2005, 10:11 AM
I don't live in Edmonton or Calgary, so I like to think I'm fairly unbiased in comparing the cities, and frankly I don't see much of a difference. Calgary has the mountains in the skyline, Edmonton has a beautiful river valley. Calgary has a world-class zoo, Edmonton has world class university. WEM vs. Calgary's downtown district.
When it comes to hosting sporting events, Calgary did an amazing job holding the Olympics. Edmonton has held Commonwealth Games, World Track and Field Championships, world class soccer facilities etc. While Edmonton's success with local teams and athletes (with regards to winning championships) may be more impressive than Calgary, they have had their fair share of success as well.
I, for one, have no problem with the city of Calgary. But theres idiots in both cities who say and do stupid things. And while I hate the Stamps, their successes only help fuel the battle of Alberta, which is a good thing. And I think that most people feel the same as me.I do....good post bud :thup:

MoneyGuy
03-22-2005, 10:16 AM
"Calgary has the mountains in the skyline, Edmonton has a beautiful river valley. Calgary has a world-class zoo, Edmonton has world class university. WEM vs. Calgary's downtown district. When it comes to hosting sporting events, Calgary did an amazing job holding the Olympics. Edmonton has held Commonwealth Games, World Track and Field Championships, world class soccer facilities etc. While Edmonton's success with local teams and athletes (with regards to winning championships) may be more impressive than Calgary, they have had their fair share of success as well."

Good points. I've lived all my life in the Edmonton area. I love both cities. Both have a lot going for them. Edmonton has many great features that I love.

Some facts:
Edmonton kicks Calgary butt all over the place in terms of sports. Calgary kicks our butts in business. No contest in either category. When a friend from Cow Town boasts about their sports teams, I just say things like: 5 Stanleys to 1, 13 Grey Cups to 3 (I'm not sure of those numbers but it doesn't matter as they don't know either), Esks 38, Stamps 0, etc. I mention 33 years in the playoffs in a row for the Esks and ask what their current streak is. "Oh, righ," I say, "it's zero." That tends to shut them up.

Cities get their identity (for those who care about sports) from their sports teams. (Non-sports fans don't care.) In this respect, Calgary has an intense inferiority complex compared to Edmonton.

Edmonton is world class in several respects. Our city has more urban parkland per capita than any city in North America. It's true. When a city needs to come together to host a major event, Edmonton does it as well as anyone. Calgary has the Olys but they were just Winter Olys and Edmonton has hosted a bigger international event than that, as measured by numbers of countries, athletes and visitors.

Calgary is a great city but in many respects Edmonton is better. I love both.

Oh, l there is no doubt that this jealosy thing is more one-sided, more jealosy from Calgary than from Edmonton. They hate us more than we hate them (I don't hate them). Although they do kick butt in the business arena, they hate us because they envy our great success in sports. Their hate for us is intense. I've seen it many times.

KnuckleChucker
03-22-2005, 10:22 AM
"Oh, righ," I say, "it's zero." That tends to shut them up.



Ahhhhhhhhh Burn....

While it is probably true that there is not much difference between the two cities, if you were raised as an Oiler/Eskimo or a Flame/Stamp fan the complete and utter distaste for the opposing city is inbred deep inside of you. It is just the way it is!!!! :cool:

Opus
03-22-2005, 10:26 AM
the complete and utter distaste for the opposing city is inbred deep inside of you.

....here I thought that was more of a Regina/Winnipeg thing :rofl:

56Parkies
03-22-2005, 10:37 AM
13 Grey Cups to 3

It's 12-5, in case ya run into someone who DOES know.. chances are, though.. they won't be bringing it up.. :D Throwing our winning percentage works on most teams, actually.. ;)

Nanookster
03-22-2005, 11:55 AM
That's the biggest load of homer B.S. I've ever heard.

What do they have to be jealous of us for?
What do we have to be jealous of them?

Since we're "dealing in facts" here, your response must also be based on quantitative -- rather than qualitative -- measures.

I have in-laws who live in Calgary. They have moved between Fort McMurray, Edmonton, and Calgary.

My in-laws are not Eskimo or Oiler fans. Having lived in both Calgary and Edmonton they have noticed a huge anti-Edmonton bias in the Calgary media.

They say they didn't experience the same thing in Edmonton. They say it is done so often it is embarrassing.

Calgary rarely applauds our success. Instead they are envious of it. My in-laws save all the printed articles and send them to me once a year. The articles are run weekly and it is quite the shock to see how envious Calgary is of us.

Sandy - Edmonton
03-22-2005, 12:17 PM
Calgary rarely applauds our success. Instead they are envious of it.

Couldn't agree more. Calgarians have always tried to run down Edmonton's successful events (World's - 3rd largest global event, World U19 soccer, etc)

esks4life
03-22-2005, 12:41 PM
Doesnt every province have a city rivalry though? I mean I know that living in Regina alot of people hate Saskatoon because the city is designed like last nights bowel movement and Reginans are jealous of the music venues that go there and not here. As for universities the UofR is alot better then the UofS. And as far as sports go I think Saskatoon is jealous that Regina has the Riders.

Nanookster
03-22-2005, 09:27 PM
That's the biggest load of homer B.S. I've ever heard.

What do they have to be jealous of us for?
What do we have to be jealous of them?

Since we're "dealing in facts" here, your response must also be based on quantitative -- rather than qualitative -- measures.

Further to what I said today I have this to add:

The last NHL season ended with the Oilers not making the playoffs. Before anyone out there starts to even suggest that Calgary would even tolerate Oilers flags being flown in their city, they'd better give their heads a shake. Calgary couldn't give 2 cents of caring about Edmonton and its teams, and in Calgary, Edmonton would never become “Canada’s Team” – no matter how long Canadian NHL teams were out of the playoffs.

What do I base my opinion on? Several recent meetings and discussions I’ve had with Calgary folks that basically said that if the situation were reversed, there is no way in HELL they would cheer for Edmonton. Period. At least I give the media credit for saying the right words like “miracle run” and “unexpected” and “drive overcoming skill”, not “dynasty” and “we are the chosen ones.”

Recent evidence of Calgarians apathy and malaise to all things Edmonton comes in the form of Travel Alberta - a publication that is authored out of Cowtown but paid for by Provincial funds. Their myopic view of the province has ads that highlight Calgary and Banff, and their recent Internet and magazine/newspaper inserts/ads highlight Calgary, Calgary, Calgary, Calgary, Calgary, Calgary, Banff, Lake Louise, Calgary, Calgary, Calgary, Calgary, Calgary, an Edmonton hotel, Calgary, Calgary, Calgary, Calgary, Calgary, Calgary, Calgary, Calgary, Calgary, Calgary, and Calgary. No kidding, 22 times Calgary and area items are mentioned, and only an Edmonton hotel is highlighted. If you don’t believe me, look at the next Travel Alberta TV commercial; their last one had Calgary, Lake Louise, Banff, Cochrane, and a shot of horseback riding in Cochrane. Previous ads highlighted the Stampede, the Flames, the Stamps, Calgary Opera, 17th, Glenbow, and the Calgary (Husky) Tower – with a cursory shot of the WEM water park.

Several other publications based out of Calgary show the same disdain for anything else. Alberta Best Homes is another recent example. It says Alberta Best, but the ads are 99.9% Calgary based, the homes are 99.99 Calgary owned, and the developments are 99.9% Calgary highlighted. Nothing from Red Deer, St. Albert, Lethbridge, Medicine Hat, St. Albert, Fort McMurray, and one measly article about Edmonton in the several issues I looked at. Alberta Best my ass - there are really cool homes in other cities.

Calgary has become so full of itself that there is no way in HELL they care about Edmonton, the Oilers, or any of Alberta. Some rather astute and observant Calgarians are calling their city's new disease "affluenza" and like me, miss the cool Calgary of the 80's. It is like there is nothing that exists in Alberta outside the Eastern Calgary city limits, along Hwy 1 to the BC border - the rest is shanty-towns, igloos, and trailer parks - oh, and a hotel. It is starting to really remind me of Toronto's attitude to the rest of Canada.

I so want the Oilers to get revenge when the NHL resumes play. I so want the Esks to blow Calgary out of Commonwealth like they did last year. I will NEVER fly a Flames flag - especially given how both their Chamber of Commerce and their sports fans send the favor back in return. Believe me, when I was down in Calgary and wanted to watch a Oilers playoff game, I was soundly told no. One bartender’s words were - "Hockey is over, and I will never show an Oiler game in my bar." So, until Calgary and its companies show some respect our way, why should I even return the favor?

Tell me about a city being full of itself.

If anyone has taken a drive outside of Calgary, you might have noticed the "street" signs on the Township and Range roads. Around Edmonton, they're the normal Township and Range Road signs one would expect (for example, Township Road 513 or Range Road 225). However, around Cowtown, I've seen a sign telling people that they're passing 562nd Avenue South! This is on Highway 2 about 3km south of the High River turnoff! Do they honestly expect that their city will grow all the way out there? I expect that the same thing happened on the other 3 sides of the city as well. What a colossal waste of taxpayer's money just to satisfy a collective ego.

Remember, this was also the city that got a lot of municipal taxpayers around the province to subsidize their municipal taxes under some guise of "growing too fast".

Unfortunately, I think that history will bear the fact that there isn't a Calgary-Edmonton rivalry but rather a Calgary-Alberta rivalry. Once I have time, I'll start going through the old Calgary newspapers my in-laws gave me just to see how they've viewed their relationship with the rest of the province.

Yeah, I had too much time on my hands to type this one. The Calgary-Edmonton rivalry was even a topic in one of my University courses in Kingston. We had three Calgarians on my course. The rest of my classmates were from all over Canada. The level of material gathered by all of my classmates was heavily anti-Edmonton. We couldn’t find much in Edmonton print that was considered anti-Calgary.

Everyone in my class agreed Edmontonians are only too happy to bask in our success. When we celebrate we are too busy to even think of Calgary.

Opus
03-22-2005, 11:31 PM
as far as the Calgary promotion goes and the shift of attention towards Calgary in the last dozen years or so goes, I have just one question...did you vote for Klein?

lloyd
03-22-2005, 11:50 PM
as far as the Calgary promotion goes and the shift of attention towards Calgary in the last dozen years or so goes, I have just one question...did you vote for Klein?

So true!

Nanookster
03-23-2005, 07:44 AM
as far as the Calgary promotion goes and the shift of attention towards Calgary in the last dozen years or so goes, I have just one question...did you vote for Klein?

Nope, never have and never will. I do not agree with what he has done to Healthcare and Education. I also fear what he wants to do to Healthcare.

A monkey could have paid off Alberta's debt. A combination of high oil prices and low interest rates allowed him to do so.

He has had far too many failures - deregulation and whatnot.

Don't misread my post. I love Calgary. It is a great city. I just don't like how they view us. As well, I was really happy Calgary had four ridings that voted against Klein this past election. Good show on their part!

If only rural Alberta would have woken up and seen what Klein has done to this province.

Nanookster
03-23-2005, 07:50 AM
So true!

Why is it so true?

Recently I was in the Emergency room in Cold Lake. I was sitting in the waiting room waiting to talk to my wife (an RN who works there).

An old man was getting pretty obnoxious with the staff over his hour long wait (he has a sore throat). I asked him if he voted for Klein? When he indicated he did I told him to sit down and shut-up. He had nothing to complain about as he had a hand creating the system he was whining about.

Esks4ever
03-23-2005, 08:13 AM
An old man was getting pretty obnoxious with the staff over his hour long wait (he has a sore throat).



Now I dont know whats all in cold lake.. but why would someone go to an Emergency room for a sore throat.... thats what walk in medical clinics are for.... IMO too many people go to the emergency room for the littlest things. IMO these people contribute to the long waits at said rooms..

Nanookster
03-23-2005, 08:19 AM
Now I dont know whats all in cold lake.. but why would someone go to an Emergency room for a sore throat.... thats what walk in medical clinics are for.... IMO too many people go to the emergency room for the littlest things. IMO these people contribute to the long waits at said rooms..

Same thing happens here, people abuse the emergency room.

But Cold Lake doesn't have Medic Clinics. They have to visit the family doctor who only works during the day.

Opus
03-23-2005, 08:37 AM
I think you missed the point behind my and Lloyd's last posts Nookster.....I'm glad that you've never voted for Ralph (neither have I) and the point (which Lloyd was saying was so true) was that the provincial government has pushed Calgary as an attraction to buisness and tourism ever since Klein has been in power. I still can't believe that so many people outside of southern Alberta vote for this clown, he's done nothing for Edmonton and northern Alberta (unless you have buisness interests in the oilpatch).

Nanookster
03-23-2005, 09:23 AM
I think you missed the point behind my and Lloyd's last posts Nookster.....I'm glad that you've never voted for Ralph (neither have I) and the point (which Lloyd was saying was so true) was that the provincial government has pushed Calgary as an attraction to buisness and tourism ever since Klein has been in power. I still can't believe that so many people outside of southern Alberta vote for this clown, he's done nothing for Edmonton and northern Alberta (unless you have buisness interests in the oilpatch).

Sorry Fishman, I did sub-consciously understand that.

eskimoses
03-23-2005, 10:56 AM
Nope, never have and never will. I do not agree with what he has done to Healthcare and Education. I also fear what he wants to do to Healthcare.

A monkey could have paid off Alberta's debt. A combination of high oil prices and low interest rates allowed him to do so.

He has had far too many failures - deregulation and whatnot.

Don't misread my post. I love Calgary. It is a great city. I just don't like how they view us. As well, I was really happy Calgary had four ridings that voted against Klein this past election. Good show on their part!

If only rural Alberta would have woken up and seen what Klein has done to this province.


As for being someone who worked in the healthcare field for several years guess what 'Nook... IT NEEDED FIXING!!!!! Whyare other provinces looking at what we have done and are attempting to emulate it? THe old outdated liberal cash cow called "healthcare" needs to be brought out of mothballs and recreated to "live in the now" and meet todays challenges. I saw waste of resources in the old system that would turn your stomach and alter your opinion of doctors FOREVER!!!!
Besides, who are you gonna vote for ... a liberal? THAT'S been the biggest barrier for Edmonton! Ralph ain't completely right on everything (especially deregulation) but sure as hell is right about alot of things too!! He puts this province ahead of his interests or Ottawa's blatantly biased motives... how can you not repect that? :mad: :cool:

Nanookster
03-23-2005, 01:04 PM
As for being someone who worked in the healthcare field for several years guess what 'Nook... IT NEEDED FIXING!!!!! Whyare other provinces looking at what we have done and are attempting to emulate it? THe old outdated liberal cash cow called "healthcare" needs to be brought out of mothballs and recreated to "live in the now" and meet todays challenges. I saw waste of resources in the old system that would turn your stomach and alter your opinion of doctors FOREVER!!!!
Besides, who are you gonna vote for ... a liberal? THAT'S been the biggest barrier for Edmonton! Ralph ain't completely right on everything (especially deregulation) but sure as hell is right about alot of things too!! He puts this province ahead of his interests or Ottawa's blatantly biased motives... how can you not repect that? :mad: :cool:

Private Healthcare is not the answer. It will only make public waiting lists longer as it will take specialists away from the public system.

If you have 100 doctors and 50 go private you still have 100 doctors.

A two tiered healthcare system will only cater to the rich.

Anyone who thinks Private Healthcare will work needs to give their head a shake. It has failed in every country it has been implemented in.

Just what did you do in the Healthcare system?

Other Provinces are not looking at us. Klein is not popular outside of Alberta.

lloyd
03-23-2005, 01:57 PM
Private Healthcare is not the answer. It will only make public waiting lists longer as it will take specialists away from the public system.

If you have 100 doctors and 50 go private you still have 100 doctors.

A two tiered healthcare system will only cater to the rich.

Anyone who thinks Private Healthcare will work needs to give their head a shake. It has failed in every country it has been implemented in.

Just what did you do in the Healthcare system?

Other Provinces are not looking at us. Klein is not popular outside of Alberta.

your right, cause the system we are using right now is working like a charm :wham:

The Dude
03-23-2005, 06:00 PM
Q: How many Calgarians does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: 10. One to change the light bulb and nine to talk about how great the '88 Olympics were.

When I am drawn into an argument about Calgary-Edmonton, I just play a game of rock-paper-Alberta's capital. I win every time. I can't believe they are still so insanely jealous of that! :D


My in-laws are not Eskimo or Oiler fans. Having lived in both Calgary and Edmonton they have noticed a huge anti-Edmonton bias in the Calgary media.

I can confirm this, having lived in Southern Alberta for 8 years. My parents still live there, and it whenever I go to visit, there is always some glowing article in the paper about how great Calgary is. :rolleyes:

gizmo fan 2
03-23-2005, 08:41 PM
Q: How many Calgarians does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: 10. One to change the light bulb and nine to talk about how great the '88 Olympics were.



:lol: :lol: :thup:

Esks4ever
03-24-2005, 07:57 AM
Q: How many Calgarians does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: 10. One to change the light bulb and nine to talk about how great the '88 Olympics were.

When I am drawn into an argument about Calgary-Edmonton, I just play a game of rock-paper-Alberta's capital. I win every time. I can't believe they are still so insanely jealous of that! :D



I can confirm this, having lived in Southern Alberta for 8 years. My parents still live there, and it whenever I go to visit, there is always some glowing article in the paper about how great Calgary is. :rolleyes:




:lol: Ya i think calgary is still pissed they didn't get to be Alberta's capital...

Muley69
03-24-2005, 08:53 AM
Private Healthcare is not the answer. It will only make public waiting lists longer as it will take specialists away from the public system.

If you have 100 doctors and 50 go private you still have 100 doctors.

A two tiered healthcare system will only cater to the rich.

Anyone who thinks Private Healthcare will work needs to give their head a shake. It has failed in every country it has been implemented in.

Just what did you do in the Healthcare system?

Other Provinces are not looking at us. Klein is not popular outside of Alberta.



Wow...been gone all week and look what happens!

The thing about "jealousy" is that it only exists if you let it. I could care less what Calgary thinks of us, and what we think of them. They are both nice cities and am more than happy to live in Edmonton. As for the "development of Calgary", that's a load! The EDEC (Economic Development Edmonton Corporporation) has done wonderful things for the Capital region. Fort MacMurray has EXPLODED and it's our city -- not Calgary -- that feeds that region!

As for Healthcare...

#1. Ralph Klein is NOT responsible for how healthcare operates in Canada. Hell, he's not even responsible for Alberta. And even if he was...well, he's no better than anyone else, 'cause it has problems right across the country.


#2. Have you even LOOKED at Healthcare, say, in Sweden? What about Australia? EVERY developed nation has some form of private healthcare. Don't assume it's "all bad", cause it's not. Everyone talks about "America being the model of example of how private healthcare doesn't work". Well do you realize that their public healthcare provider -- Medicare -- represents the single largest health expenditures in that country too?


#3. I think that it is absolutely CRIMINAL that I have to wait 1 year to see a specialist when I have the money to go see him next week! Why can't I decide what to spend my money on? And on the most important thing -- my health!!!!

I am being forced to wait for health care. That is WRONG. Period.


#4. Lets look at FACTS.

Fact is that people -- even now -- LEAVE this country to purchase medical services in the states. That is millions of dollars that isleaving our country. Seems to me to be a hell of a lot better to keep that cash "in-house".

Fact: You can't keep spending money on healthcare without making the users accountable for the expenditure! Fine...keep healthcare the way it is. But don't bitch when taxes have to go up to pay for it! EVEN IN RICH ALBERTA, Health spending represents nearly 40% of expenditures! And we're rich. Can you imagine what it is like for Ontario -- they recently announced a $6 BILLION deficit!

Imagine that...an increase in taxes for EVERYONE, even when everyone likely won't use / need any additional healthcare.



Fact: By 2025, nearly 1 in 4 Canadians will be over the age of 55.
Fact: Older people consume way more healthcare dollars than young people.

If you think we have health troubles now...you ain't seen nothing yet under our current system!


#5. Part of the reason that it is hard to recruit doctors from (say) the States is due to our massive, governmental bureaucracy and red tape! Do you realize how many Hundreds of MILLIONS of dollars of research are held up because of the insane Health bureaucracy? Do you realize how horribly inefficient the system is and that it would cost so much more to completely upheave and overhaul the system?

Nevermind the fact that the Alberta Medical Association is at odds with the College of Physcians is at odds with the Canadian Nurses Association is at odds with the Provincial Employee Unions is at odds with the ... (you see the trend yet)? It's a perverse situation and each group is highly territorial. You just don't break down those barriers!



Allow a doctor set up a clinic. Give people choices. Cut through all the bureaucracy bull ****. People are so worried that they won't be "able to afford private healthcare"...but have they ever considered how many millions of dollars are literally wasted over legal wrangling, red-tape, union demands, etc?



#6. Why do people blindly assume that "private" means "unregulated"? That is the single biggest dumb assumption that groups like the "Ragin' Grannies" make. Just because Alberta might allow more for-profit clinics doesn't mean that they'd run rampant.

If we must look to the U.S. -- and I don't think we do (or that we should), then we DO have the ability to regulate and thank god for the U.S. because exhaustive studies have been done that demonstrate where and when the U.S. system should have changed. We can learn from the experience of others...remember, the U.S. "went it alone" in developing their system.

chub
03-24-2005, 11:03 AM
Wow...been gone all week and look what happens!

The thing about "jealousy" is that it only exists if you let it. I could care less what Calgary thinks of us, and what we think of them. They are both nice cities and am more than happy to live in Edmonton. As for the "development of Calgary", that's a load! The EDEC (Economic Development Edmonton Corporporation) has done wonderful things for the Capital region. Fort MacMurray has EXPLODED and it's our city -- not Calgary -- that feeds that region!

As for Healthcare...

#1. Ralph Klein is NOT responsible for how healthcare operates in Canada. Hell, he's not even responsible for Alberta. And even if he was...well, he's no better than anyone else, 'cause it has problems right across the country.


#2. Have you even LOOKED at Healthcare, say, in Sweden? What about Australia? EVERY developed nation has some form of private healthcare. Don't assume it's "all bad", cause it's not. Everyone talks about "America being the model of example of how private healthcare doesn't work". Well do you realize that their public healthcare provider -- Medicare -- represents the single largest health expenditures in that country too?


#3. I think that it is absolutely CRIMINAL that I have to wait 1 year to see a specialist when I have the money to go see him next week! Why can't I decide what to spend my money on? And on the most important thing -- my health!!!!

I am being forced to wait for health care. That is WRONG. Period.


#4. Lets look at FACTS.

Fact is that people -- even now -- LEAVE this country to purchase medical services in the states. That is millions of dollars that isleaving our country. Seems to me to be a hell of a lot better to keep that cash "in-house".

Fact: You can't keep spending money on healthcare without making the users accountable for the expenditure! Fine...keep healthcare the way it is. But don't bitch when taxes have to go up to pay for it! EVEN IN RICH ALBERTA, Health spending represents nearly 40% of expenditures! And we're rich. Can you imagine what it is like for Ontario -- they recently announced a $6 BILLION deficit!

Imagine that...an increase in taxes for EVERYONE, even when everyone likely won't use / need any additional healthcare.



Fact: By 2025, nearly 1 in 4 Canadians will be over the age of 55.
Fact: Older people consume way more healthcare dollars than young people.

If you think we have health troubles now...you ain't seen nothing yet under our current system!


#5. Part of the reason that it is hard to recruit doctors from (say) the States is due to our massive, governmental bureaucracy and red tape! Do you realize how many Hundreds of MILLIONS of dollars of research are held up because of the insane Health bureaucracy? Do you realize how horribly inefficient the system is and that it would cost so much more to completely upheave and overhaul the system?

Nevermind the fact that the Alberta Medical Association is at odds with the College of Physcians is at odds with the Canadian Nurses Association is at odds with the Provincial Employee Unions is at odds with the ... (you see the trend yet)? It's a perverse situation and each group is highly territorial. You just don't break down those barriers!



Allow a doctor set up a clinic. Give people choices. Cut through all the bureaucracy bull ****. People are so worried that they won't be "able to afford private healthcare"...but have they ever considered how many millions of dollars are literally wasted over legal wrangling, red-tape, union demands, etc?



#6. Why do people blindly assume that "private" means "unregulated"? That is the single biggest dumb assumption that groups like the "Ragin' Grannies" make. Just because Alberta might allow more for-profit clinics doesn't mean that they'd run rampant.

If we must look to the U.S. -- and I don't think we do (or that we should), then we DO have the ability to regulate and thank god for the U.S. because exhaustive studies have been done that demonstrate where and when the U.S. system should have changed. We can learn from the experience of others...remember, the U.S. "went it alone" in developing their system.


Where to begin.

Some fair points muley, but its time for me to shed some light.

First, Health care dollars come fom the feds. 41.39 (might be 43.1 I cant remember) billion of the next 10 years to be exact according tot he 2005 budget. This equates to ~4 billion per year to all provinces split up. This is a far decline from what Romanow poroposed in his report to fix the system (he requested 2 payments of 15 billion). Now MAny may ask if money is the solution to problems in health care. Its part of it.

The biggest problem we have in Canada as known is a physician shortage. THe reason we lose so many physicians to the states per annum is because they feel over worked here in Canada in many places. Especially specialists.

However the US isnt always the bright lights for some...the increased costs in malpractice insureance...and the amount of times one gets sued isnt always worth it. Dpenedns how competent one is obviously...some docs are better than others, and predicted results in procedures arent always bang one. Medicine isnt an easy craft.

BAck to topic. THe multi-tiered systems used in many european countries work because the levels of poverty in such places is low. Everyone in these countries for the most part can afford it. To see an example of where private system failed the people of a country (not the rich, but the average joe/poor people) look at Great Britain, where every good physician switched over to the private sector, leaving the public health care system in complete shambles. They have inadequate number of docs, lack of equipment....everything one can get if they can afford it.

Now to you point about the waiting lists, and why if you can pay for it to get ahead, why not do it. I think that this has started in the form of diagnostic procedures such as MRI (you can pay 100 bucks at the private clinic to get ahead of waiting lists in ALberta).

MY suggestion to keep Canada a public system would be to incorporate a federally runned second tier system, thereby keeping governemt control of slaries and fees/service, and using "private" money (not really private obviously), to invest in all healthcare. THis would reduce wait times, and put competent physicians working in both sectors, since theoretically they are both public. Now I dont pretend to be an expert, but I do know that something in this form would work, and would be possible.....THere are a lot of details I probably havent considered with respect to feasabliity....but bottom line is, to me, Canada's claim to fame is its medicare stystem, and I think the system CAN work if spending is done properly. A full 2 or 3-tirered system DOES remove established physcians from the public system, and degrades the old system and their users.

Nobody realizes the big wastes in health spending. I am aware of a huge mistake in spending by the Alberta government with respect to machine purchasing to reduce waitlists...jist of it was that they really didnt think things through, bought the wrong equipment, and in the end did not reduce wait times significantly. Feds give health money to prov. gov'ts, who decide how to spend the dollars....I suggest you talk to your MLA who is in charge of Health in ALberta to ask about how money is being spent....

Lastly something I want to talk about is is the avg. age of people in Canada. We are an aging country. This means more chronic health problems for these people. Also, its no surprise that there is high abuse of the health care system as a result....many of these people keep going to the doctor every time they get a sliver in their hand....

The 2 fix-its for these have to involve increased public health/education and more up-front user-pay. This in turn would also reduce wait times to some extent. You wouldnt believe how many people are waiting for procedures they DO NOT require, but have insisted on getting cause they are paranoid....when it comes to one's health, this can be unerstandable...but with more public health dollars, education would allow many misconceptions about health problems to be abolished.

Wait one more thing....you spoke of bureaucracy....with respect to red tape, govenement..etc...

A private health sector does not escape this either. Look at how HMO (Hospital Management Organizations) in the USA have controlled doctors. Some arent even allowed to prescibe more than a set amount of antibiotics....there are some weird restrictions on practices there too. Plus the fact that HMO's keep ethics out of medicine. You MUST refuse the poor innercity child service if he dont got the insurance. However, where you made a good point was the fact that private systems are still regulated. Yes they are, by HMO's and also by economic supply/demand laws.
But as stated, I dont think that this system is in any way advantageous to the Canadian system. There are so many people in the states who just dont get treated for any of their problems cause they dont have insurance.

Neither system is perfect, but IMO, the Canadian system can be saved if we increase sepnding (that is fiscally resonsible and well though out), increase public health education, and deter abuse. As stated, I aint no expert, Ive just done a lot of reading on the system....it IS fixible...but no fix of such a large system can be a quick fix.

It is worth looking at the Romanow Report...its a littkle left-wing scued, and dont worry about the dollar amounts, but the analysis he makes with respect to what areas need spending and why, and how to improve the system are quite valid. He hasnt covered everythign that well, but I htought Romanow did a good job of at least publicizing the issues.

And now Im tired.

Good day.

Esks4ever
03-24-2005, 11:06 AM
those are some loooooooooong posts :thup:

KnuckleChucker
03-24-2005, 11:37 AM
How come I feel all dirty...And how did a post about Jealous Calgarians turn into a health care debate...Something has gone terribly wrong.... :confused:

Esks4ever
03-24-2005, 11:39 AM
How come I feel all dirty...And how did a post about Jealous Calgarians turn into a health care debate...Something has gone terribly wrong.... :confused:


thread hi-jacking.. it happens :lol:

56Parkies
03-24-2005, 11:46 AM
hell, it's more the rule than the exception! ;)

Opus
03-24-2005, 11:52 AM
wow Chub.....i'd have to say that was by far your best post here ever.....:thup:

chub
03-24-2005, 12:44 PM
wow Chub.....i'd have to say that was by far your best post here ever.....:thup:

thnx....just an issue i really care about since I wanna be a doc one day....

Opus
03-24-2005, 12:48 PM
thnx....just an issue i really care about since I wanna be a doc one day....good luck with that :thup:










considering you're also a riderfan, the location of your head should give you added experience in proctology....:lol: (j/k)

chub
03-24-2005, 12:53 PM
good luck with that :thup:










considering you're also a riderfan, the location of your head should give you added experience in proctology....:lol: (j/k)


Ill give u the "Zing" on that one.....lol.

But lets get serious for a second....the Riders are gonna lay the smack-down this coming season!!!

Opus
03-24-2005, 02:13 PM
oh, c'mon now........you wouldn't happen to have an alias by the name Rider Man would you? :lol:

chub
03-24-2005, 03:18 PM
oh, c'mon now........you wouldn't happen to have an alias by the name Rider Man would you? :lol:

Naw....i did read that guys post on our bombers...what a homer...LOL

I wouldnt make a post like that....

But I always believe the RIders will beat the Esks...its what a good Rider fan does...lol...

GeeBrr
03-24-2005, 10:43 PM
oh, c'mon now........you wouldn't happen to have an alias by the name Rider Man would you? :lol:


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

****e that is just rep worthy sir.

Nanookster
03-31-2005, 08:37 AM
Wow...been gone all week and look what happens!

As for Healthcare...

#1. Ralph Klein is NOT responsible for how healthcare operates in Canada. Hell, he's not even responsible for Alberta. And even if he was...well, he's no better than anyone else, 'cause it has problems right across the country.

He is responsible for it's destruction. Allot of good people left our province to work elsewhere due to his cutbacks.

#2. Have you even LOOKED at Healthcare, say, in Sweden? What about Australia? EVERY developed nation has some form of private healthcare. Don't assume it's "all bad", cause it's not. Everyone talks about "America being the model of example of how private healthcare doesn't work". Well do you realize that their public healthcare provider -- Medicare -- represents the single largest health expenditures in that country too?

Sweden's and Australia's Healthcare system do not work well either. This was note in Romanov's report.

#3. I think that it is absolutely CRIMINAL that I have to wait 1 year to see a specialist when I have the money to go see him next week! Why can't I decide what to spend my money on? And on the most important thing -- my health!!!!

If everyone paid we'd still have the same number of machines in Alberta. I think it is absolutely criminal that a surgeon in Cold Lake would have to pay for such a machine. The government should be buying them. He paid $500,000 of his money then moved out of Cold Lake.

I am being forced to wait for health care. That is WRONG. Period.

So paying more will help? When will it end and what will the ceiling be?


#4. Lets look at FACTS.

Fact is that people -- even now -- LEAVE this country to purchase medical services in the states. That is millions of dollars that isleaving our country. Seems to me to be a hell of a lot better to keep that cash "in-house".

How many are doing this? Not many. Only the wealthy.

Fact: You can't keep spending money on healthcare without making the users accountable for the expenditure! Fine...keep healthcare the way it is. But don't bitch when taxes have to go up to pay for it! EVEN IN RICH ALBERTA, Health spending represents nearly 40% of expenditures! And we're rich. Can you imagine what it is like for Ontario -- they recently announced a $6 BILLION deficit!

Healthcare is a fact of life that needs to be paid for. What good did paying our debt off do? Where are the benefits? Gas prices are still rising as is everything else.

Imagine that...an increase in taxes for EVERYONE, even when everyone likely won't use / need any additional healthcare.


Fact: By 2025, nearly 1 in 4 Canadians will be over the age of 55.
Fact: Older people consume way more healthcare dollars than young people.

If you think we have health troubles now...you ain't seen nothing yet under our current system!

#5. Part of the reason that it is hard to recruit doctors from (say) the States is due to our massive, governmental bureaucracy and red tape! Do you realize how many Hundreds of MILLIONS of dollars of research are held up because of the insane Health bureaucracy? Do you realize how horribly inefficient the system is and that it would cost so much more to completely upheave and overhaul the system?

It has to do with the higher rate of pay a doctor makes in the States. The US certainly has it's red tape as well.

Nevermind the fact that the Alberta Medical Association is at odds with the College of Physcians is at odds with the Canadian Nurses Association is at odds with the Provincial Employee Unions is at odds with the ... (you see the trend yet)? It's a perverse situation and each group is highly territorial. You just don't break down those barriers!

The US is any better? They are worse for infighting and suing one another.

Allow a doctor set up a clinic. Give people choices. Cut through all the bureaucracy bull ****. People are so worried that they won't be "able to afford private healthcare"...but have they ever considered how many millions of dollars are literally wasted over legal wrangling, red-tape, union demands, etc?

So paying more is the answer? Cutting waste is the answer.

#6. Why do people blindly assume that "private" means "unregulated"? That is the single biggest dumb assumption that groups like the "Ragin' Grannies" make. Just because Alberta might allow more for-profit clinics doesn't mean that they'd run rampant.

It will be regulated - to the highest bidder.

If we must look to the U.S. -- and I don't think we do (or that we should), then we DO have the ability to regulate and thank god for the U.S. because exhaustive studies have been done that demonstrate where and when the U.S. system should have changed. We can learn from the experience of others...remember, the U.S. "went it alone" in developing their system.

I fear the day, if it ever comes, when I can't pay health bills for one of my children because I'm not wealthy enough. Healthcare should go to who needs it most first. Not who has the most money.

If that day ever comes will you be able to look your child in the eyes and tell them you supported the private system Ralph wants to put in place?

Muley69
03-31-2005, 11:05 AM
I fear the day, if it ever comes, when I can't pay health bills for one of my children because I'm not wealthy enough. Healthcare should go to who needs it most first. Not who has the most money.

If that day ever comes will you be able to look your child in the eyes and tell them you supported the private system Ralph wants to put in place?


If the day ever comes where your wife dies prematurely due to a preventable / treatable illness disease, will you be able to look your child in the eyes because your wife died will being forced into a waiting line that was over a year long -- when you yourself had the money necessary to pay for the services yourself?

I can crank up the rhetoric just as much!

Here's another one. Is it fair that the million dollar making CEO's can get a hip replacement ahed of your ailing low-income grandmother just because the CEO "got into the queue" ahead of your grandmom? Why should we limit the CEO from buying this in a private clinic -- thereby shortening the line up for public services?

How about another one. Do you mind seeing a provincial marginal tax increase of 20% (from 10% to 12%) to pay for Health Care which -- at this rate -- is unsustainable?





We demand responsibility, accountability, efficiency, and effectiveness in all areas of government -- except where it matters, namely, in healthcare.


And why do people think private service -- at all -- means no regulation? That is the most dangerous mistake people make in all of this!

1. Continue to charge health care premiums at the same time as allowing for private services.

2. Continue to have dedicated health taxes going to fund public healthcare

3. Regulate that all licensed doctors must spend at least 75% of their time on public surgeries/procedures

4. Require that a doctor can't open a private practice unless he's had 15 years experience in the public sector

5. Require that a doctor can't open a private clinic unless he's spent 5 years in a small town, remote location

6. Regulate how much private clinics can charge for a procedure

7. Tax the private procedures ... use the money for public health care

8. There are infinitely more regulations that could be adopted to allay the fears of the so-called "evil private health care".


(And never mind that your current family physician ALREADY IS A PRIVATE CORPORATION!)

Nanookster
04-02-2005, 09:14 AM
Hi Muley,

I think I can look you in the eye right now and say that would not happen in the current system, The criticallty ill jump the queue all the time. Alberta doesn't have anyone on their deathbed waiting a year to see a Doctor. Triage does take place and the most ill are seen first.

As per your CEO scenario when SUPPLY and DEMAND numbers are still the same what you propose isn't fair. If you still have the same number of Doctors performing their functions, the waiting periods will still be the same length. It will still be 10 Doctors per every 100 patients. Your proposal only juggles the line-up.

I guess we are going to agree to disagree on this issue.


If the day ever comes where your wife dies prematurely due to a preventable / treatable illness disease, will you be able to look your child in the eyes because your wife died will being forced into a waiting line that was over a year long -- when you yourself had the money necessary to pay for the services yourself?

I can crank up the rhetoric just as much!

Here's another one. Is it fair that the million dollar making CEO's can get a hip replacement ahed of your ailing low-income grandmother just because the CEO "got into the queue" ahead of your grandmom? Why should we limit the CEO from buying this in a private clinic -- thereby shortening the line up for public services?