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Thread: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    I find all the debate in regards to JM's experience to kind of be surreal. My take on it is that the guy has been in the league 11 years and been exposed to a number of HCs, OCs, and QBs. He's had to learn a number of systems in that time and since he's characterized as a student of the game who spends a lot of time studying film has probably had a pretty good handle of not only what his team has been doing but what other offences around the league has been doing including the vaunted Saskatchewan RR's. To imply that there would be any kind of significant learning curve for him in getting a handle on MC's new system is IMO frankly insulting. His resume in terms of a QB coach is on the same level as was MC's, DD, or KJ when they first got their shot at being a QB coach. To me this really boils down to him not being a guy they know or one of their buddies. Maybe MC thinks his relationship with RR is too strong and he's afraid of being undermined (that's actually my guess here). The fact of the matter is the guy is smart, experienced, passionate, and more than qualified. He would have been a resource the club could have used effectively freeing up Kruck and MC to do other things. The folks in charge decided to not look past their personal biases and that is the reason he wasn't offered a spot. They're in charge so they call the shots. Doesn't mean I have to like it though and as a fan I don't so they better win since moves like this really piss me off.
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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by pizmo View Post
    Is it too late for.........?
    I hope so unless the RR leadership thing kicks off

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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by adb View Post
    I find all the debate in regards to JM's experience to kind of be surreal. My take on it is that the guy has been in the league 11 years and been exposed to a number of HCs, OCs, and QBs. He's had to learn a number of systems in that time and since he's characterized as a student of the game who spends a lot of time studying film has probably had a pretty good handle of not only what his team has been doing but what other offences around the league has been doing including the vaunted Saskatchewan RR's. To imply that there would be any kind of significant learning curve for him in getting a handle on MC's new system is IMO frankly insulting. His resume in terms of a QB coach is on the same level as was MC's, DD, or KJ when they first got their shot at being a QB coach. To me this really boils down to him not being a guy they know or one of their buddies. Maybe MC thinks his relationship with RR is too strong and he's afraid of being undermined (that's actually my guess here). The fact of the matter is the guy is smart, experienced, passionate, and more than qualified. He would have been a resource the club could have used effectively freeing up Kruck and MC to do other things. The folks in charge decided to not look past their personal biases and that is the reason he wasn't offered a spot. They're in charge so they call the shots. Doesn't mean I have to like it though and as a fan I don't so they better win since moves like this really piss me off.
    good post

    not sure what other things are more important for Kruck or Crandel to do than deal with RR? - yes this likely has to do with Him not being a guy they know

    coaching staffs tend to be built that way - rightly or wrongly

    but it is really more about - They want to do it themselves - so they did not PLAN on hiring ANYBODY to do that job

    and with RR being such a Pro - they may also plan on giving him more responsibility which lessens the need even more

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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotor View Post
    This surprises me - I have never heard a coach say RR lacked leadership - is he cerebral vs vocal sure

    should DM have done more with JM - absolutely - should another staff who has no connection to him be forced to? Not in your life

    but I want to hear more about the RR thing - do Eskimo fans really think he is a poor leader?
    Here is the crux of your point that you have been sidestepping all along. The point I am in opposition to. Like you however, it seems Tillman, and by your extension Reed as well, are playing the same game of silly ******* that you are.

    Have you been living under a rock for the last few years? Have Tillman and Reed?

    Everyone and their dog have known for years that when Maas' playing days were ending, that he was a natural fit to take the next progression towards coaching in this league. Like many other recent QB's turned coach in Dickenson, Jones, or Crandel.

    They knew, just as you knew. That is the issue....and their was no discussion with him to that regard. That was the ****ty thing they did to Maas. You know it as well, but it seems to go much better feigning ignorance and tap dancing around it.
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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Opus View Post
    Here is the crux of your point that you have been sidestepping all along. The point I am in opposition to. Like you however, it seems Tillman, and by your extension Reed as well, are playing the same game of silly ******* that you are.

    Have you been living under a rock for the last few years? Have Tillman and Reed?

    Everyone and their dog have known for years that when Maas' playing days were ending, that he was a natural fit to take the next progression towards coaching in this league. Like many other recent QB's turned coach in Dickenson, Jones, or Crandel.

    They knew, just as you knew. That is the issue....and their was no discussion with him to that regard. That was the ****ty thing they did to Maas. You know it as well, but it seems to go much better feigning ignorance and tap dancing around it.
    I'm not dancing around anything

    I have said the JM could be a good coach - but that HERE and NOW its not going to happen - nor should it

    1) too close of ties to DM
    2) no idea if he even gets along with Crandel or Kruck or if he totally disagrees with the offensive system they want to implement
    3) maybe too close to the players - much like Tucker was

    I understand you believe as an Eskimo player he is ENTITLED to become the next QB COACH - regardless of having no ties to the rest of the staff

    that is a valid position - but where do those ENTITLEMENTS end? and who decides you? a fan poll?

    should we codify it that any former Eskimo that shows interest and aptitude shall automatically be provided a coaching spot regardless of the opinions or wishes of the Head Coach?

    Do Kavis and Maas know each other - both being former Eskimo's?

    quick check - they may have both been here in 2000 and then both been in Hamilton in 2006 - wonder if those interactions influenced things in any way or had absolutely no impact - a question I will make sure to ask!
    Last edited by Rotor; 05-27-2011 at 12:54 PM.

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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotor View Post
    good post

    not sure what other things are more important for Kruck or Crandel to do than deal with RR? - yes this likely has to do with Him not being a guy they know

    coaching staffs tend to be built that way - rightly or wrongly

    but it is really more about - They want to do it themselves - so they did not PLAN on hiring ANYBODY to do that job

    and with RR being such a Pro - they may also plan on giving him more responsibility which lessens the need even more
    But it would have been a great move from both a strategic and PR position to make not unlike their decision to retain TP. I find it hard to beieve that with all that goes into preparing for a football game on a weekly basis (even if it mainly consisted of breaking down film) that there wasn't a role there available for JM to play allowing him to make a psoitive contribution to the EEFC and like I said before I find the inability of those in charge to look past their own biases to be personally disappointing especially in this case.
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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by adb View Post
    But it would have been a great move from both a strategic and PR position to make not unlike their decision to retain TP. I find it hard to beieve that with all that goes into preparing for a football game on a weekly basis (even if it mainly consisted of breaking down film) that there wasn't a role there available for JM to play allowing him to make a psoitive contribution to the EEFC and like I said before I find the inability of those in charge to look past their own biases to be personally disappointing especially in this case.
    it may have been a good PR move

    it may have been considered we don't know that - all we know is clearly Kavis chose not to move in that direction - should we assume its all Kavis's fault? Should we assume its all Jason's Fault" or should we do what we were doing

    Saying good bye to a classy QB and wishing him well in retirement?

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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Opus View Post
    Here is the crux of your point that you have been sidestepping all along. The point I am in opposition to. Like you however, it seems Tillman, and by your extension Reed as well, are playing the same game of silly ******* that you are.

    Have you been living under a rock for the last few years? Have Tillman and Reed?

    Everyone and their dog have known for years that when Maas' playing days were ending, that he was a natural fit to take the next progression towards coaching in this league. Like many other recent QB's turned coach in Dickenson, Jones, or Crandel.

    They knew, just as you knew. That is the issue....and their was no discussion with him to that regard. That was the ****ty thing they did to Maas. You know it as well, but it seems to go much better feigning ignorance and tap dancing around it.
    And JM eluded to it as well yesterday, that there was no conversation at all
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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotor View Post
    I'm not dancing around anything

    I have said the JM could be a good coach - but that HERE and NOW its not going to happen - nor should it

    1) too close of ties to DM
    2) no idea if he even gets along with Crandel or Kruck or if he totally disagrees with the offensive system they want to implement
    3) maybe too close to the players - much like Tucker was

    I understand you believe as an Eskimo player he is ENTITLED to become the next QB COACH - regardless of having no ties to the rest of the staff

    that is a valid position - but where do those ENTITLEMENTS end? and who decides you? a fan poll?

    should we codify it that any former Eskimo that shows interest and aptitude shall automatically be provided a coaching spot regardless of the opinions or wishes of the Head Coach?

    Do Kavis and Maas know each other - both being former Eskimo's?

    quick check - they may have both been here in 2000 and then both been in Hamilton in 2006 - wonder if those interactions influenced things in any way or had absolutely no impact - a question I will make sure to ask!
    I believe that he was ENTITLED to having some correspondence on the matter. Not hit out of left field with a "retire or release" scenario more in line with an apple and a road map. The rest of those questions are unanswered because of the actions taken, not because of anything Maas did or did not do.

    That is the position this management team took.

    Maas deserved better.
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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Opus View Post
    I believe that he was ENTITLED to having some correspondence on the matter. Not hit out of left field with a "retire or release" scenario more in line with an apple and a road map. The rest of those questions are unanswered because of the actions taken, not because of anything Maas did or did not do.

    That is the position this management team took.

    Maas deserved better.
    And thus endith the thread.
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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Opus View Post
    Maas deserved better.
    A player can be released any time for any reason, its not fair, but its the same for any player or coach in the CFL. He had a sweet pressure free gig, he should be happy it lasted this long. Had he taken DM up on his offer, he would have 2 years of CFL coaching experience.

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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    I find it so funny that Rotor acts like he knows all about our players prior to ET being on board , when its clear as hell that he only became involved in the Esks when ET was here.. Not one freakin second beforehand, yet he goes on like he knows exactly how the players related to DM or the like ....

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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Esks4ever View Post
    I find it so funny that Rotor acts like he knows all about our players prior to ET being on board , when its clear as hell that he only became involved in the Esks when ET was here.. Not one freakin second beforehand, yet he goes on like he knows exactly how the players related to DM or the like ....
    I think its funny how apparently DM tried to get JM to retire and become a coach two years ago - he chose not to and now two years later Kavis is a bad guy for not asking him to join his staff

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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    yeah double post

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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nermal View Post
    In the big picture this may not be a bad thing. It may be better that Maas has no association with the Tillman era at all. As several people have said, Maas is an Eskimo, and Tillman is not an Eskimo, and when the shame of the Tillman era comes to an end you’re going to need people to step in and rebuild the true character of this team. Who better to be part of that than Maas? I don’t think Tillman’s going to last very long, and by the look of your roster it wouldn’t even surprise me if he gets fired at the end of this year, so Maas may not have long to wait.

    Tillman did this with the Riders too, btw. He cut veteran leaders like Andrew Greene and Nate Davis, players he never replaced or paid more money to replace. I think this is a power thing for Tillman.
    That’s a good one Nermal, you got me laughing.

    You mean Nate Davis and Andrew Green who signed with Winnipeg? The Bombers your Riders beat in the Grey Cup the same year you say they weren't replaced? The same Riders who went to 3 Grey Cups in 4 years without Davis and Green?

    JM is not in the same category with these guys, sorry.

    What great things did they do in the CFL after they left Saskatchewan?

    Yesterday you were hammering us for having no backup quarterback. None of us know about Matt Nichols. He could be good or bad. We admit that. How about your club now?

    Are you ready to win with Dinwiddie WHEN Durant gets hurt?

    What's your next trick …ET can't replace Kelly Bates and Mo Lloyd?

    Come on if you are trying to rock the boat you’re going to have to get a lot more creative.

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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Ok first off Rotor.....how come RR wasn't shown the door? He also has just as many ties to DM as did JM.
    Second all four QB you listed had some experience in other pro leagues from AFL- NFL so they were not out of college rookies new to pro ball.
    Like both Kirby and Nichols. Who better than JM to show them the way? MC who will be controlling or should be controlling the entire offense and Kruck who should focus on the Reciever since a lot of them will be new.
    I think JM will be back in this league (hope as well) as a coach and a damn fine one as well. (IE Dickenson) This was our chance to make sure it was for the green and gold.
    As for RR leadership...a very close friend works in the Eskimo office and has for many years and she has nothing against Ray, knows he is not the outspoken leader type. I am basing my opinion on that and what I have seen on the sidelines. The Eskimos are my first and only team...not the one I cheer for when not playing my actual favorite team.
    Last edited by chirp; 05-27-2011 at 04:45 PM.
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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    That’s a good one Nermal, you got me laughing.

    You mean Nate Davis and Andrew Green who signed with Winnipeg? The Bombers your Riders beat in the Grey Cup the same year you say they weren't replaced? The same Riders who went to 3 Grey Cups in 4 years without Davis and Green?

    JM is not in the same category with these guys, sorry.

    What great things did they do in the CFL after they left Saskatchewan?

    Yesterday you were hammering us for having no backup quarterback. None of us know about Matt Nichols. He could be good or bad. We admit that. How about your club now?

    Are you ready to win with Dinwiddie WHEN Durant gets hurt?

    What's your next trick …ET can't replace Kelly Bates and Mo Lloyd?

    Come on if you are trying to rock the boat you’re going to have to get a lot more creative.
    Just saying only 6 defensive starters are returning?
    That's a lot of chemistry to pull out of nowhere by July.
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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by chirp View Post
    Ok first off Rotor.....how come RR wasn't shown the door? He also has just as many ties to DM as did JM.
    Second all four QB you listed had some experience in other pro leagues from AFL- NFL so they were not out of college rookies new to pro ball.
    Like both Kirby and Nichols. Who better than JM to show them the way? MC who will be controlling or should be controlling the entire offense and Kruck who should focus on the Reciever since a lot of them will be new.
    I think JM will be back in this league (hope as well) as a coach and a damn fine one as well. (IE Dickenson) This was our chance to make sure it was for the green and gold.
    As for RR leadership...a very close friend works in the Eskimo office and has for many years and she has nothing against Ray, but he is not the outspoken leader type. I am basing my opinion on that and what I have seen on the sidelines. The Eskimos are my first and only team...not the one I cheer for when not playing my actual favorite team.
    RR was not shown the door because even when ET was in Sask he referred to RR as the best QB in the league - that and RR reworked his contract

    you could be right about your backups - they may have less experience - as for JM again he may well become a good coach - I have never suggested anything other than his future success as a coach - that is if he coaches at all

    I just don't think you parachute a guy onto the coaching staff - when you have no idea of his opinion of the system being run
    everyone here seems to think all coaching systems are 100% interchangeable and all QBs and co-ordinators approach the game the same way

    if you were running DM's offence - I would hire JM in a heart beat - if you were running Kevin Strassers - I agree

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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    How many offenses has Crandell run? N O N E*....
    So why should I trust MC's system? Because he got two watch to Grey Cup loses. Being a good QB coach does not guarantee you will be a good OC the same as OC's don't always translate to HC's.
    DM's offense won a Grey cup argued that it could be two....that is as much credit I will give him.
    I also was not aware that both BC and Sask ran a spread offense last year.

    *I had one there but realized he hasn't done that yet.
    Last edited by chirp; 05-27-2011 at 05:14 PM.
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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotor View Post
    RR was not shown the door because even when ET was in Sask he referred to RR as the best QB in the league - that and RR reworked his contract

    you could be right about your backups - they may have less experience - as for JM again he may well become a good coach - I have never suggested anything other than his future success as a coach - that is if he coaches at all

    I just don't think you parachute a guy onto the coaching staff - when you have no idea of his opinion of the system being run
    everyone here seems to think all coaching systems are 100% interchangeable and all QBs and co-ordinators approach the game the same way

    if you were running DM's offence - I would hire JM in a heart beat - if you were running Kevin Strassers - I agree
    I find it odd that when a player is released it is Coach Kavis didn't see eye to eye....and when a player is kept it is because ET wanted him.
    We all know who is running the show and who will be the first fall guy. I like Kavis Reed, and I know he must give feedback but I also guess he does not bite the hand that feeds him.
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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by chirp View Post
    Just saying only 6 defensive starters are returning?
    That's a lot of chemistry to pull out of nowhere by July.
    I hear you, it will be an interesting camp...and maybe not great chemistry until Labour Day

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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    I hear you, it will be an interesting camp...and maybe not great chemistry until Labour Day
    Despite those who say you can't be negative and still be a fan, I am really excited to see the new team.
    Interesting indeed.
    Last edited by chirp; 05-27-2011 at 05:15 PM.
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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by chirp View Post
    I find it odd that when a player is released it is Coach Kavis didn't see eye to eye....and when a player is kept it is because ET wanted him.
    We all know who is running the show and who will be the first fall guy. I like Kavis Reed, and I know he must give feedback but I also guess he does not bite the hand that feeds him.
    I think some players don't fit in the system and some didn't fit into the SMS. Football System is KR and his coaches that have advised on those decisions. Certainly, it would be wrong to suggest that there have not been SMS related releases here, which fall into the younger, faster, cheaper MO of ET.

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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    I think some players don't fit in the system and some didn't fit into the SMS. Football System is KR and his coaches that have advised on those decisions. Certainly, it would be wrong to suggest that there have not been SMS related releases here, which fall into the younger, faster, cheaper MO of ET.
    Most of the releases have been quoted as a contract size issue....as per ET in the paper?
    Off the top of my head, Mo Lloyd was the only one quoted as he did not fit in the defensive system...
    Last edited by chirp; 05-27-2011 at 05:21 PM.
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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by chirp View Post
    I find it odd that when a player is released it is Coach Kavis didn't see eye to eye....and when a player is kept it is because ET wanted him.
    We all know who is running the show and who will be the first fall guy. I like Kavis Reed, and I know he must give feedback but I also guess he does not bite the hand that feeds him.
    contract negotiations are done by the GM

    who the Coach hires as his assistants is Kavis

    which players get invited back is collaborative with the coaching staff getting the final decision as long as it all fits within the SMS system

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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by chirp View Post
    Most of the releases have been quoted as a contract size issue....as per ET in the paper?
    Off the top of my head, Mo Lloyd was the only one quoted as he did not fit in the defensive system...
    actually ROmero was quoted as not fitting the system as well as $$ and production

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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotor View Post
    contract negotiations are done by the GM

    who the Coach hires as his assistants is Kavis

    which players get invited back is collaborative with the coaching staff getting the final decision as long as it all fits within the SMS system
    I know how football teams work...I was referring to when you post about it.
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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotor View Post
    actually ROmero was quoted as not fitting the system as well as $$ and production
    Cool. I couldn't remember and as I said off the top of my head.
    So I will change it to about 80% of the releases have been because of money and ties to DM.
    14 and counting!

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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotor View Post
    actually ROmero was quoted as not fitting the system as well as $$ and production
    I think for 80K he would have fit in the system at 140 (if that was what he was making) it was an SMS issue $ for production. Starter versus backup $...

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    Re: Esks Call Media Availability with Jason Maas Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by chirp View Post
    I know how football teams work...I was referring to when you post about it.
    and how is that inconsistant to how I post about it?

    I was talking about reworking RR contract I referred to ET
    we were talking about JM joining the staff I referred to Kavis

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