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Thread: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

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    Discussion We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    A Comedy of Errors

    In the unusual streak of rookie head coaches that have rolled through here since the mid 2000's (5 and counting) we've seen yet again the results of what happens when a first year HC takes the reigns and like with CJ, when the first year man also takes on a co-ordinator's role.

    This team was not assembled with the notion of a wholesale staff change, but that's what we got. And there have been some regression pains (I use regression because I haven't seen any growth with the exception of perhaps Walker), in the philosophical, scheme, and personality changes this squad has been asked to take on.

    Sure there's a lot of disappointment to go around; the vets talked the talk but they aren't walking the walk when it comes to not being regarded as 1 year wonders.

    We know that our DC was not our first, or second choice for that matter.

    I think we all expected JM to make his share of rookie HC mistakes, and there have been more than a few when it comes to game management, but knowing him, he will work to get better.

    I'm far more disappointed in the staff around him, including JM the OC but more on that a bit later.

    Bene, while I hoped for the best like we all have, has been very underwhelming, regardless of the D's improved play from the trainwreck beginning of the year. He's taken a D that was built to play fast, and aggressive, and hooked up plows to a bunch of thoroughbreds. I understand that some was out of key personnel losses/injury (Ojo) but the manner in which he chooses to not keep his Dline fresh, further putting pressure on his secondary late in games, leading to multiple collapses is on him. I would be very disappointed if he is back next year if Thorpe becomes available.

    Cory McDiarmid should be sent packing at season's end if it were me. His units have been outcoached, out hustled, and outschemed all season long. Too many times he's been caught with his pants down not being ready for big plays against. The Doe experiment has also fallen flat on it's face, and I find it hard to think Bell couldn't provide what Doe is, allowing us to get 30/33 on the field at the same time

    JM the HC should have a chat with JM the OC and tell him to stop thinking like a QB and more like an OC when it comes to his offensive playcalling balance. Say what you will about McAdoo, but his gameplan and playcalling was far more balance and kept defenses far more OFF balance. When half the building knows when we're going to run (between the 35's usually on first down, seek play) I think our opponents do as well. I would like to see as much creativity into the ground plays as we take in the passing game. Only once against Calgary did we execute a well designed run where we overloaded the right side and caught the stamps in man coverage only to pull our RG to the left side with White for a nice big run. That play stands out cos we've seen so few nice run plays. Also, the DM/JM concept of a 3 yard pass equaling a 3 yrd run is equally as rubbish now as it was then. We have an OLine that is proven to be able to dominate teams at the LOS yet we handicap them in terms of poorly designed running schemes, and predictable situational playcalling

    There is still time to get it turned around and sneak in, and if you get in, anything can happen. The players have to show some urgency and after 9 games, there are no rookies anymore. What concerns me most is we are making too many mistakes and seem too poorly prepared at key times too late in the year. I'm positive year 2 will get better, but as disappointing as it is now, it's hard not to say you could see it coming the way the offseason shaped up firmly stacked against us
    I hit them as hard as I could on the mouth right from the start of the game so they were thinking this was going to be a long day. Sooner or later one of us had to quit. And it wasn't going to be me.
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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    .
    The Doe experiment has also fallen flat on it's face, and I find it hard to think Bell couldn't provide what Doe is, allowing us to get 30/33 on the field at the same time
    b-b-b-but I've had many a arguments with Dave Campbell with him saying that is impossible to be and cant be done so stop bringing it up

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Thank you Diez for expressing your thoughts and feelings. I agree with all of the points made. It doesn't make me feel hopeful for this year.

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel View Post
    A Comedy of Errors

    In the unusual streak of rookie head coaches that have rolled through here since the mid 2000's (5 and counting) we've seen yet again the results of what happens when a first year HC takes the reigns and like with CJ, when the first year man also takes on a co-ordinator's role.

    This team was not assembled with the notion of a wholesale staff change, but that's what we got. And there have been some regression pains (I use regression because I haven't seen any growth with the exception of perhaps Walker), in the philosophical, scheme, and personality changes this squad has been asked to take on.

    Sure there's a lot of disappointment to go around; the vets talked the talk but they aren't walking the walk when it comes to not being regarded as 1 year wonders.

    We know that our DC was not our first, or second choice for that matter.

    I think we all expected JM to make his share of rookie HC mistakes, and there have been more than a few when it comes to game management, but knowing him, he will work to get better.

    I'm far more disappointed in the staff around him, including JM the OC but more on that a bit later.

    Bene, while I hoped for the best like we all have, has been very underwhelming, regardless of the D's improved play from the trainwreck beginning of the year. He's taken a D that was built to play fast, and aggressive, and hooked up plows to a bunch of thoroughbreds. I understand that some was out of key personnel losses/injury (Ojo) but the manner in which he chooses to not keep his Dline fresh, further putting pressure on his secondary late in games, leading to multiple collapses is on him. I would be very disappointed if he is back next year if Thorpe becomes available.

    Cory McDiarmid should be sent packing at season's end if it were me. His units have been outcoached, out hustled, and outschemed all season long. Too many times he's been caught with his pants down not being ready for big plays against. The Doe experiment has also fallen flat on it's face, and I find it hard to think Bell couldn't provide what Doe is, allowing us to get 30/33 on the field at the same time

    JM the HC should have a chat with JM the OC and tell him to stop thinking like a QB and more like an OC when it comes to his offensive playcalling balance. Say what you will about McAdoo, but his gameplan and playcalling was far more balance and kept defenses far more OFF balance. When half the building knows when we're going to run (between the 35's usually on first down, seek play) I think our opponents do as well. I would like to see as much creativity into the ground plays as we take in the passing game. Only once against Calgary did we execute a well designed run where we overloaded the right side and caught the stamps in man coverage only to pull our RG to the left side with White for a nice big run. That play stands out cos we've seen so few nice run plays. Also, the DM/JM concept of a 3 yard pass equaling a 3 yrd run is equally as rubbish now as it was then. We have an OLine that is proven to be able to dominate teams at the LOS yet we handicap them in terms of poorly designed running schemes, and predictable situational playcalling

    There is still time to get it turned around and sneak in, and if you get in, anything can happen. The players have to show some urgency and after 9 games, there are no rookies anymore. What concerns me most is we are making too many mistakes and seem too poorly prepared at key times too late in the year. I'm positive year 2 will get better, but as disappointing as it is now, it's hard not to say you could see it coming the way the offseason shaped up firmly stacked against us
    Twice this year in obvious times when our opponent needed an extra possession we weren't ready for a "surprise" onside kick that in itself tells me he isn't coaching them up or prepping them properly.

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel View Post
    A Comedy of Errors

    In the unusual streak of rookie head coaches that have rolled through here since the mid 2000's (5 and counting) we've seen yet again the results of what happens when a first year HC takes the reigns and like with CJ, when the first year man also takes on a co-ordinator's role.

    This team was not assembled with the notion of a wholesale staff change, but that's what we got. And there have been some regression pains (I use regression because I haven't seen any growth with the exception of perhaps Walker), in the philosophical, scheme, and personality changes this squad has been asked to take on.

    Sure there's a lot of disappointment to go around; the vets talked the talk but they aren't walking the walk when it comes to not being regarded as 1 year wonders.

    We know that our DC was not our first, or second choice for that matter.

    I think we all expected JM to make his share of rookie HC mistakes, and there have been more than a few when it comes to game management, but knowing him, he will work to get better.

    I'm far more disappointed in the staff around him, including JM the OC but more on that a bit later.

    Bene, while I hoped for the best like we all have, has been very underwhelming, regardless of the D's improved play from the trainwreck beginning of the year. He's taken a D that was built to play fast, and aggressive, and hooked up plows to a bunch of thoroughbreds. I understand that some was out of key personnel losses/injury (Ojo) but the manner in which he chooses to not keep his Dline fresh, further putting pressure on his secondary late in games, leading to multiple collapses is on him. I would be very disappointed if he is back next year if Thorpe becomes available.

    Cory McDiarmid should be sent packing at season's end if it were me. His units have been outcoached, out hustled, and outschemed all season long. Too many times he's been caught with his pants down not being ready for big plays against. The Doe experiment has also fallen flat on it's face, and I find it hard to think Bell couldn't provide what Doe is, allowing us to get 30/33 on the field at the same time

    JM the HC should have a chat with JM the OC and tell him to stop thinking like a QB and more like an OC when it comes to his offensive playcalling balance. Say what you will about McAdoo, but his gameplan and playcalling was far more balance and kept defenses far more OFF balance. When half the building knows when we're going to run (between the 35's usually on first down, seek play) I think our opponents do as well. I would like to see as much creativity into the ground plays as we take in the passing game. Only once against Calgary did we execute a well designed run where we overloaded the right side and caught the stamps in man coverage only to pull our RG to the left side with White for a nice big run. That play stands out cos we've seen so few nice run plays. Also, the DM/JM concept of a 3 yard pass equaling a 3 yrd run is equally as rubbish now as it was then. We have an OLine that is proven to be able to dominate teams at the LOS yet we handicap them in terms of poorly designed running schemes, and predictable situational playcalling

    There is still time to get it turned around and sneak in, and if you get in, anything can happen. The players have to show some urgency and after 9 games, there are no rookies anymore. What concerns me most is we are making too many mistakes and seem too poorly prepared at key times too late in the year. I'm positive year 2 will get better, but as disappointing as it is now, it's hard not to say you could see it coming the way the offseason shaped up firmly stacked against us
    I disagree with your comment about not keeping the D-line fresh. We've been dressing 7, count 'em, 7 D-linemen & that has been providing a rotation, both at DE & DT. Granted, it would have been nice to have had Donny O in there, but he's now off the 6-game IR & in fact was practicing last week. Perhaps he is now ready to return & provide additional National depth....
    No quarrel with the rest of your comments, particularly re the ST coaching. Add to that fact that Maas refuses to get D'oh out of there in favour of someone else....
    Last edited by writfiler; 09-20-2016 at 11:09 PM.

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Starts with the coaching staff and honestly every single member has been very underwhelming

    Creehan, mcdiramid, are just very poor coaches who have been on losing teams continually, bene has been out of ball for several years.. I was harsh on him at the start of the year but out of all three units his is the only one that seems to show improvement
    I have no idea who our wr coach is .. I'm never a fan of a oline man coaching backs....
    Thought miles would be better to...

    And jmaas is finding out being a hc is not the same has a OC, and I think his OC aspect is suffering because of it

    Needs to a ton of change witting the assistant coaches next year..

    But I truely believe that Maas and Thorpe is a very tasty combination... Might be worth Maas hiring an assistant OC, like Brady is to milanovich

    But this year is not done... We can still crossover and I think we might make a run in the east

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Which Shakespeare Play have we seen before?

    You suggest a "Comedy of Errors".
    Perhaps instead not a comedy, but the tragedy "Maciociabeth"?
    Last edited by Moon1; 09-21-2016 at 12:31 AM.

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Quote Originally Posted by writfiler View Post
    I disagree with your comment about not keeping the D-line fresh. We've been dressing 7, count 'em, 7 D-linemen & that has been providing a rotation, both at DE & DT. Granted, it would have been nice to have had Donny O in there, but he's now off the 6-game IR & in fact was practicing last week. Perhaps he is now ready to return & provide additional National depth....
    No quarrel with the rest of your comments, particularly re the ST coaching. Add to that fact that Maas refuses to get D'oh out of there in favour of someone else....
    They have been dressed but there isn't a consistent rotation
    #PizStrong

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    They have been dressed but there isn't a consistent rotation
    Agreed. Rotation usually means the starters take two series while the backups take one. Rinse, lather and repeat. Spell the starters on long drives of eight plays or more.
    Last edited by Jedrock43; 09-21-2016 at 09:24 AM.

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Nice post Diez. Only thing I'd add is there's no sense of urgency at all from this team. They lollygag to and from the line. The "no huddle offence" still winds up getting time count violations at home? WTF is up with that? For years we were complaining about the dink and dunk but I'd rather take the short pass/runs that produce 1st downs than the long (almost hail Mary) passes that either miss the target or worse get intercepted.
    Sorry everyone for not contributing anything to this board... My bad?

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    This team could take some inspiration from Dario and Juliette, Tracy Hamlet or King Henry Williams II. Then this will all be Much Ado About Nothing as we enjoy the season finale All's Well That Ends Well.
    Last edited by Uncle Bobby; 09-21-2016 at 10:07 AM.

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Our coaching staff has not done well overall, the reason we suck is lack of player talent. Vets that have underachieved, injuries, poor replacements.

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Great points made by everyone. Another thing that bugs me is that I feel the team is not hungry enough. Seems to have lost drive and appear at times to be just going thru the motions. The players that should be leading by example are not doing so. Maybe it's time for EH to have a closed door meeting with the players only, no coaches. Have a good "gripe" session. Even trade a vet that figures he has a job for life here, just as an attention getter to some others.

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    I don't see a need for that as there seems to be no signs of disunity at all. They are just not executing well in most phases, coaches and players alike
    I hit them as hard as I could on the mouth right from the start of the game so they were thinking this was going to be a long day. Sooner or later one of us had to quit. And it wasn't going to be me.
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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Quote Originally Posted by cmbuk View Post
    But I truely believe that Maas and Thorpe is a very tasty combination... Might be worth Maas hiring an assistant OC, like Brady is to milanovich
    Retired Ricky Ray?
    "Because this Eskimo experience is not made for just anyone" - KP

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Quote Originally Posted by writfiler View Post
    I disagree with your comment about not keeping the D-line fresh. We've been dressing 7, count 'em, 7 D-linemen & that has been providing a rotation, both at DE & DT. Granted, it would have been nice to have had Donny O in there, but he's now off the 6-game IR & in fact was practicing last week. Perhaps he is now ready to return & provide additional National depth....
    No quarrel with the rest of your comments, particularly re the ST coaching. Add to that fact that Maas refuses to get D'oh out of there in favour of someone else....
    I posted this before but in Phillip Hunts first game in almost 20 months he was gassed in the 4th quarter as was Willis. They tried to come off the field at least 3 times and were waved back in by Bene. Both players are clutch and were not faking that they were too tired but were forced to remain on the field not good coaching.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by boydo View Post
    Nice post Diez. Only thing I'd add is there's no sense of urgency at all from this team. They lollygag to and from the line. The "no huddle offence" still winds up getting time count violations at home? WTF is up with that? For years we were complaining about the dink and dunk but I'd rather take the short pass/runs that produce 1st downs than the long (almost hail Mary) passes that either miss the target or worse get intercepted.

    Run the Ball up the gut around the horn it does not matter. We run we win what is so difficult to understand.

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Quote Originally Posted by boydo View Post
    Nice post Diez. Only thing I'd add is there's no sense of urgency at all from this team. They lollygag to and from the line. The "no huddle offence" still winds up getting time count violations at home? WTF is up with that? For years we were complaining about the dink and dunk but I'd rather take the short pass/runs that produce 1st downs than the long (almost hail Mary) passes that either miss the target or worse get intercepted.
    I think it was an interview Gregor had with Sewell where Sewell said CJ stopped practice about a quarter of the way through and made them start over right from the beginning. Gregor then asked a good follow up question of how many times did CJ do that in 2015? And Sewell said twice. Those are the consequences for just going through the motions and lollygagging out there.
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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Diez, 100% agree with your post..

    But it's falling on deaf ears.

    Jason Maas, Ed Hervey and the rest of the organization could give two s**t's about what fans have to say, what media has to say, what anyone has to say. They're stubborn and arrogant in the way they see the game and seem not willing to budge until it smacks them in the face. The fact that Kenzel Doe continues to play week-after-week is mind blowing and one example of it, and the fact that he's playing tomorrow night is even more mind blowing.

    I fully believe that if it wasn't Jason Maas' first year and he wasn't Eskimos Royalty, he'd be getting a lot more heat for the piss poor job he's done as a coach/OC this season.

    I also think Ed Hervey deserves a ton of blame as well.

    To me, it sounds like we won a Grey Cup and everyone in the personnel department, whether it be the GM, Head Coach, or the scouts -- collectively put their feet up and decided to f**k the dog for lack of a better word. Even after adding Hunt, Stoudermire, Vega, etc -- I can guarantee we still lead the league in cap space by a country mile. There is certain things you can't control (NFL losses), but if those things happen, you have to have backup plans. And to me, it seems like Ed Hervey's only fall back plan was playing raw CFL rookies and if they failed.. oh well.

    Really disappointed in those two individuals and then the apple doesn't fall far from the tree with respect to the other coaches (Benevides, McDiarmid, etc).

    Jason Maas will get another year or two to prove himself. Personally, I don't think he deserves that, but he will get another year. Him and Ed Hervey have a major off-season ahead.

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Quote Originally Posted by boydo View Post
    Nice post Diez. Only thing I'd add is there's no sense of urgency at all from this team. They lollygag to and from the line. The "no huddle offence" still winds up getting time count violations at home? WTF is up with that?
    Agree with this

    Quote Originally Posted by boydo View Post
    For years we were complaining about the dink and dunk but I'd rather take the short pass/runs that produce 1st downs than the long (almost hail Mary) passes that either miss the target or worse get intercepted.
    Completely disagree with this, most of our points seem to come from the long play. I do not ever want to see a 3 yard pass on 2nd and long from the Esks ever again!
    PLEASE do not feed the trolls!

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Quote Originally Posted by Eskiman View Post
    Agree with this



    Completely disagree with this, most of our points seem to come from the long play. I do not ever want to see a 3 yard pass on 2nd and long from the Esks ever again!
    You'd rather see a forced pass into double coverage and a pick? Interesting choice

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Quote Originally Posted by EsksTMac View Post

    Jason Maas, Ed Hervey and the rest of the organization could give two s**t's about what fans have to say, what media has to say, what anyone has to say.
    Geez, I certainly hope they aren't tuning in here to fine tune the game plan.

    Doe must go, you are absolutely correct but to think we know better than the professionals running the show is just kind of weird don't you think?
    The old saying I got from this very site "Coaches who listen to the fans will soon be sitting with them" seems appropriate.
    PLEASE do not feed the trolls!

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Sorry you feel that way, but I don't think you have a grasp on the personality of our GM whatsoever, nor how hard his team works. Like with KR and CJ, JM has the freedom to coach his team as he wants. Getting players in here can be done in either a shotgun approach (see SK/HAM) or in a targeted approach. In many cases with US players you have to exercise patience in getting the players you really want to finally commit to come up here. I know this, after what happened in the offseason, there isn't a person in this city who wants to win more than our GM. You don't have to believe it, but it's true if you know the person.

    Case in point fopr Canadian reference, how hard do you think it would be for a european hockey team to try and lure over a hockey player who's sold on his dream of playing in the NHL and who's either hanging on to an NHL roster spot or is a short lister for call ups in the AHL?
    I hit them as hard as I could on the mouth right from the start of the game so they were thinking this was going to be a long day. Sooner or later one of us had to quit. And it wasn't going to be me.
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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel View Post
    Sorry you feel that way, but I don't think you have a grasp on the personality of our GM whatsoever, nor how hard his team works. Like with KR and CJ, JM has the freedom to coach his team as he wants. Getting players in here can be done in either a shotgun approach (see SK/HAM) or in a targeted approach. In many cases with US players you have to exercise patience in getting the players you really want to finally commit to come up here. I know this, after what happened in the offseason, there isn't a person in this city who wants to win more than our GM. You don't have to believe it, but it's true if you know the person.

    Case in point fopr Canadian reference, how hard do you think it would be for a european hockey team to try and lure over a hockey player who's sold on his dream of playing in the NHL and who's either hanging on to an NHL roster spot or is a short lister for call ups in the AHL?
    Regardless of how hard the team works or not, the proof is in the pudding. They didn't do their job and bring players in here who could be successful. They're now having to find band aid's who can hopefully get us some W's in the process of getting to the off-season. All off-season I heard, "Ed relies on his scouting," well: the scouting has failed. There's no denying that. How do they bounce back? I think that is the very interesting question in the coming months ahead.

    Like I said, the NFL losses you can't do f**k all about. There's no denying Aaron Grymes or Dexter McCoil their dreams and I think the contract he set up with McCoil was very creative.

    However, there's gotta be some back-up plans and in my opinion, our back-up plan was brutal. We relied on rookies to come in and "experience growing pains." Well, the majority of them sucked Day 1 and continue to suck now, aside from Ladler (who I think has had some tough moments but is really starting to come into his own). And when he realized they sucked, he brought guys like Brandyn Thompson in, who sat in free agency the entire time.

    Why not bring players such as Thompson, Vega, and other vets in from Day 1 of camp? Let the veterans and the rookies battle. Whoever comes out on top, comes out on top. That's how you create competition.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, I feel like I need to put this as a disclaimer any time I have any sort of criticism for Hervey, because any time I comment anything negative about him, I have people coming at me in all directions.

    I love him. I like the scouts. Up to this year, they gave me no reason to feel they were failing at their jobs. I like Ed's aggressiveness to fix situations that come up throughout a season. I normally love the way he handles free agency. And just because I'm throwing some blame his way, it doesn't mean I want him fired or something. He also needs to be held accountable and any time you talk Eskimo football and the problems we're having, it has to start with Ed. That's the position he signed up for.

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    I really feel like Ed gambled (saved some cap space) for Grymes as he thought that he would be back. The hardest part of his job is this balance as if he had spent that money and Grymes became available, we would have all been looking at him sideways for that, instead he rolled the dice and it didn't work out.
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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel View Post
    A Comedy of Errors

    In the unusual streak of rookie head coaches that have rolled through here since the mid 2000's (5 and counting) we've seen yet again the results of what happens when a first year HC takes the reigns and like with CJ, when the first year man also takes on a co-ordinator's role.

    This team was not assembled with the notion of a wholesale staff change, but that's what we got. And there have been some regression pains (I use regression because I haven't seen any growth with the exception of perhaps Walker), in the philosophical, scheme, and personality changes this squad has been asked to take on.

    Sure there's a lot of disappointment to go around; the vets talked the talk but they aren't walking the walk when it comes to not being regarded as 1 year wonders.

    We know that our DC was not our first, or second choice for that matter.

    I think we all expected JM to make his share of rookie HC mistakes, and there have been more than a few when it comes to game management, but knowing him, he will work to get better.

    I'm far more disappointed in the staff around him, including JM the OC but more on that a bit later.

    Bene, while I hoped for the best like we all have, has been very underwhelming, regardless of the D's improved play from the trainwreck beginning of the year. He's taken a D that was built to play fast, and aggressive, and hooked up plows to a bunch of thoroughbreds. I understand that some was out of key personnel losses/injury (Ojo) but the manner in which he chooses to not keep his Dline fresh, further putting pressure on his secondary late in games, leading to multiple collapses is on him. I would be very disappointed if he is back next year if Thorpe becomes available.

    Cory McDiarmid should be sent packing at season's end if it were me. His units have been outcoached, out hustled, and outschemed all season long. Too many times he's been caught with his pants down not being ready for big plays against. The Doe experiment has also fallen flat on it's face, and I find it hard to think Bell couldn't provide what Doe is, allowing us to get 30/33 on the field at the same time

    JM the HC should have a chat with JM the OC and tell him to stop thinking like a QB and more like an OC when it comes to his offensive playcalling balance. Say what you will about McAdoo, but his gameplan and playcalling was far more balance and kept defenses far more OFF balance. When half the building knows when we're going to run (between the 35's usually on first down, seek play) I think our opponents do as well. I would like to see as much creativity into the ground plays as we take in the passing game. Only once against Calgary did we execute a well designed run where we overloaded the right side and caught the stamps in man coverage only to pull our RG to the left side with White for a nice big run. That play stands out cos we've seen so few nice run plays. Also, the DM/JM concept of a 3 yard pass equaling a 3 yrd run is equally as rubbish now as it was then. We have an OLine that is proven to be able to dominate teams at the LOS yet we handicap them in terms of poorly designed running schemes, and predictable situational playcalling

    There is still time to get it turned around and sneak in, and if you get in, anything can happen. The players have to show some urgency and after 9 games, there are no rookies anymore. What concerns me most is we are making too many mistakes and seem too poorly prepared at key times too late in the year. I'm positive year 2 will get better, but as disappointing as it is now, it's hard not to say you could see it coming the way the offseason shaped up firmly stacked against us
    i think it is hilarious that you start a new thread with a 10 paragraph diatribe blaming the HC, the veteran players, the dc and the position coaches but put exactly zero blame to the GM and the scouting staff. The whole world knew they lost a starting all star DB, a very good SAM linebacker who is essentially a db, and an all star WIL linebacker who is now playing DB in the NFL, and an all star DE. The players brought in to replace them were players who weren't even starters in college, and the ones who were, are to slow or too small to play in the cfl. The scouting staff has a bad habit of selecting Canadians who go to the NFL and actually make it, forcing us to start 11 imports on defence, with probably the worst safety in the league as the lone Canadian.

    I am no big fan of Dave Campbell but he keeps saying the reason Benevides plays so much zone is because the db's aren't good enough to cover the receivers man on man. Is that his fault or Ed's?

    there is plenty of blame to go around for this 5-7 eskimos team, but to lay the blame on everybody but the head man in charge of everything is laughable bordering on ridiculous. Ed had a terrible offseason and that is the single biggest reason they are 5-7 instead of 8-4. Calgary lost two all star receivers and a the best Cdn running back in a generation and Hugnagel went out and replaced them. That is the job of the GM. Hufnagel drafted a cdn linebacker so good they cut the offseason signing. Ed had a couple of good off seasons to lead to the grey cup bringing in Ojo , walker, Jefferson and Mccoil, but lets call a spade a spade. this winter was an epic fail for the player personnel dept. That is reason number one why the team has fallen so far in the standings.
    Last edited by mattdunigan; 09-22-2016 at 02:55 PM.

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Most of those same ingredients were good enough to win a championship. Ladler is turning into a good one, and we have talent, albeit young talent, but we have new cooks mixing those ingredients and deciding on how they want it to taste.

    CJ and EH were very much on the same page as to the type of players they wanted. Big fast and aggressive. On defense we've seen the philosophy change. We have seen an attack style, confuse them looks wise defense, be replaced with a more standard 4 man rush defense with a mix of zone/man behind them. We've seen a head down, mayhem making fireplug in Lacey be put in a role that early on he clearly was not comfortable with, but he has slowly been getting better. Is Ladler a McCoil? No but his meteoric rise hasn't been matched by many others in the league lately, but Ladler is a LB that's now starting to make plays. In the secondary, I believe the theory was to surround 1 young DHB with a returning group of vets. The Injury to Ojo threw a big wrench in that plan. Plan B was to bring in either a DB from down south or to go with a Vet that Bene had familiarity with in Parks. Obviously the coaches felt it the right decision was to go with Parks, and I question their assessment, cos I have not been impressed with Parks at all, but a GM isn't going to bring a player in that the coaches don't want.

    The coaches also decided that they would be better at safety with N. king instead of Muamba, and that's a questionable decision as NK looks as if he only is a between the hashes safety. Again, that's a staff's call. This team should have 3 more wins than it does right now, and if they were 8-4, people would be pretty ok with that. The facts are, there have been some combination much closer to the stripes than the front office as to how those games got lost. That was the essence of my original post.

    It's a first year HC with a new staff. There was bound to be eff ups, just like Kavis, Hall, and CJ had in their first year
    I hit them as hard as I could on the mouth right from the start of the game so they were thinking this was going to be a long day. Sooner or later one of us had to quit. And it wasn't going to be me.
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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    It will be interesting to see what happens with Thorpe in Montreal. If I am not mistake, he was Maas's first choice as DC. I thought there was the rumors going around he was pissed to be passed over as HC when they gassed Higgins. Thorpe resigned to come to Edmonton but the AL's blocked it and talked him into staying. Popp stepped down as HC last week and Chapdelaine who's in his first season with the ALs jumps ahead of Thorpe to be the interim Head coach. So Thorpe was passed over again. Based on his bio, Thorpe has been the ALs DC for the last 4 years, this is his 3rd as an "assistant HC" and he's coached a total of 10 years over his career with the ALs. I really doubt that if you get passed again when there is only 6 games left and you have been with the team for that long that he will be in the mix for the HC next year. So I wonder if he gets pissed off and quits after this year and maybe calls up his buddy Maas to see if that job he wasn't allowed to take is available.

    I would take Thorpe over coach Ben.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Quote Originally Posted by mattdunigan View Post
    i think it is hilarious that you start a new thread with a 10 paragraph diatribe blaming the HC, the veteran players, the dc and the position coaches but put exactly zero blame to the GM and the scouting staff. The whole world knew they lost a starting all star DB, a very good SAM linebacker who is essentially a db, and an all star WIL linebacker who is now playing DB in the NFL, and an all star DE. The players brought in to replace them were players who weren't even starters in college, and the ones who were, are to slow or too small to play in the cfl. The scouting staff has a bad habit of selecting Canadians who go to the NFL and actually make it, forcing us to start 11 imports on defence, with probably the worst safety in the league as the lone Canadian.

    I am no big fan of Dave Campbell but he keeps saying the reason Benevides plays so much zone is because the db's aren't good enough to cover the receivers man on man. Is that his fault or Ed's?

    there is plenty of blame to go around for this 5-7 eskimos team, but to lay the blame on everybody but the head man in charge of everything is laughable bordering on ridiculous. Ed had a terrible offseason and that is the single biggest reason they are 5-7 instead of 8-4. Calgary lost two all star receivers and a the best Cdn running back in a generation and Hugnagel went out and replaced them. That is the job of the GM. Hufnagel drafted a cdn linebacker so good they cut the offseason signing. Ed had a couple of good off seasons to lead to the grey cup bringing in Ojo , walker, Jefferson and Mccoil, but lets call a spade a spade. this winter was an epic fail for the player personnel dept. That is reason number one why the team has fallen so far in the standings.
    Difference between Calgary and our situation is that they didn't lose their whole coaching staff at the same time. I agree that Ed has to wear a portion of our record but to say he sat around on his hands is wrong IMO.
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    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Thorpe being passed over yet again, tells me he's not in their future plans. There's 3 current DC's who have a good handle on what today's offenses do well and counteract, CJ, Steinhauer, and Thorpe
    I hit them as hard as I could on the mouth right from the start of the game so they were thinking this was going to be a long day. Sooner or later one of us had to quit. And it wasn't going to be me.
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  30. #30

    Re: We've Seen this Shakespaere Play Before

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel View Post
    Thorpe being passed over yet again, tells me he's not in their future plans. There's 3 current DC's who have a good handle on what today's offenses do well and counteract, CJ, Steinhauer, and Thorpe
    I like our chances of landing Thorpe this winter, the only problem is if it's a promotion he's looking for we obviously can't offer him that. So if he's planning to move and is OK with still being a DC/AHC then I would say we have the inside track.

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