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Thread: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Honestly though, I would really like to see the abolition of the political party system. Vote for the best candidate that will represent your riding, not someone that will blindly follow their party mantra regardless of how it affects their constituents. It will never happen, too much money at stake, but that would go a long way to fixing the current system where each party is obliged to oppose the other party regardless of if the policy is a good one or not, rather than working together to find good solutions for the whole country.

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by nafnikufesin View Post
    Honestly though, I would really like to see the abolition of the political party system. Vote for the best candidate that will represent your riding, not someone that will blindly follow their party mantra regardless of how it affects their constituents. It will never happen, too much money at stake, but that would go a long way to fixing the current system where each party is obliged to oppose the other party regardless of if the policy is a good one or not, rather than working together to find good solutions for the whole country.
    I'd rather see the abolition of the smartphone.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    I'd rather see the abolition of the smartphone.
    Even more money at stake, so yeah, that ain't gonna happen either.

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Just heard the taped phone convo that JWR submitted to the justice committee. The claim by Butts, Trudeau and Wernick that she never complained to them of inappropriateness proven to be yet another lie.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Last edited by BaronAmongYou; 03-29-2019 at 03:26 PM.

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Interesting that Wilson-Raybould would record such a conversation without the other party's consent, considering her legal background. Guess she can throw her ethical highground out the window as well
    Last edited by Hugoagogo; 03-29-2019 at 03:27 PM.
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    Interesting that Wilson-Raybould would record such a conversation without the other party's consent, considering her legal background. Guess she can throw her ethical highground out the window as well
    That's sort of a false and meaningless argument. You don't lose the ethical high ground by protecting yourself when the PM is pressuring you and interfering in the justice system.

    For what it's worth, recording almost any conversation is perfectly legal in this country so long as one party is aware the conversation is being record.

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by BaronAmongYou View Post
    That's sort of a false and meaningless argument. You don't lose the ethical high ground by protecting yourself when the PM is pressuring you and interfering in the justice system.

    For what it's worth, recording almost any conversation is perfectly legal in this country so long as one party is aware the conversation is being record.
    I believe you can record a conversation if one party is privy, but releasing it to the public is a different matter if both parties aren't aware - but hey, I'm no lawyer. I'll assume JRW knows what she is doing and you are correct. (this time )
    Having said that - I'm all for the entire truth coming out sooner rather than later.
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    I believe you can record a conversation if one party is privy, but releasing it to the public is a different matter if both parties aren't aware - but hey, I'm no lawyer. I'll assume JRW knows what she is doing and you are correct. (this time )
    Having said that - I'm all for the entire truth coming out sooner rather than later.
    Interesting thought about releasing it to the public. I assumed this was part of some public record government process, but I don't actually know. Do cabinet ministers record all their phone calls? Are they public record like emails? Are email public record?

    The call was... I don't even know. This government we have in Canada is indefensibly bad. We're living in a banana republic. Can anyone think of a historical equivalent of the top of your head?

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    That was an interesting listen. Not just for the shadyness of it, but an insight as to how some things do or don’t get done in government.

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    Interesting that Wilson-Raybould would record such a conversation without the other party's consent, considering her legal background. Guess she can throw her ethical highground out the window as well
    Uh...no. She clearly felt the need due to the unceasing pressure. Thank god she did.

    Her ethical high ground is still very much intact. That's WHY she did it!
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    Uh...no. She clearly felt the need due to the unceasing pressure. Thank god she did.

    Her ethical high ground is still very much intact. That's WHY she did it!
    Very different ball game for lawyers, but hey, whatevs.
    Have a great weekend everybody.
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    I believe you can record a conversation if one party is privy, but releasing it to the public is a different matter if both parties aren't aware - but hey, I'm no lawyer. I'll assume JRW knows what she is doing and you are correct. (this time )
    Having said that - I'm all for the entire truth coming out sooner rather than later.
    CBC news has quite a good story on the subject here. JRW released her statements, emails and the recorded conversation to the justice committee. The story doesn't make it clear but I believe it is the committee that made it public.

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Hugo, a better description of the release of the information is given here:

    "On Friday, the House of Commons justice committee released Wilson-Raybould’s 43-page document, that includes texts, emails and the context around that evidence as well as a transcript of a 17-minute telephone conversation she recorded between herself and Michael Wernick, the clerk of the Privy Council who recently resigned from his post as the country’s top bureaucrat in the wake of this scandal that his gripped the country since Feb. 7."

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    Very different ball game for lawyers, but hey, whatevs.
    Have a great weekend everybody.
    I might be splitting hairs here, but Wernick was not the AGs "client". He was the top bureaucrat and supposed to be not partisan.

    If your boss was pressuring you to do something unethical or even criminal and threatening to fire you and destroy your reputation if you did not, what would you do?
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    I might be splitting hairs here, but Wernick was not the AGs "client". He was the top bureaucrat and supposed to be not partisan.

    If your boss was pressuring you to do something unethical or even criminal and threatening to fire you and destroy your reputation if you did not, what would you do?
    I think the expectations are different in politics than in the real world. That's probably why the Liberals are so upset with JRW. In their eyes she was supposed to do what the PM wanted, and when she didn't she shouldn't have been surprised that she was demoted from the AG position. Having watched the culture on Parliament Hill over my lifetime I doubt it's any different in any other party. Or do we all think the position of Party Whip is to arrange tea parties?
    GO ESKS GO!

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by GungaDin View Post
    I think the expectations are different in politics than in the real world. That's probably why the Liberals are so upset with JRW. In their eyes she was supposed to do what the PM wanted, and when she didn't she shouldn't have been surprised that she was demoted from the AG position. Having watched the culture on Parliament Hill over my lifetime I doubt it's any different in any other party. Or do we all think the position of Party Whip is to arrange tea parties?
    It might be a little different in the current year version of the liberal party. I've asked before if anyone can remember an equivalent occurrence in Canadian politics. I can't.

    It is funny that in this government everyone is pretty much fine with a white man, in a leadership position, pressuring a subordinate woman of color. Progressive politics are fun.

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by GungaDin View Post
    I think the expectations are different in politics than in the real world. That's probably why the Liberals are so upset with JRW. In their eyes she was supposed to do what the PM wanted, and when she didn't she shouldn't have been surprised that she was demoted from the AG position. Having watched the culture on Parliament Hill over my lifetime I doubt it's any different in any other party. Or do we all think the position of Party Whip is to arrange tea parties?
    Mate,

    I worked out there in the late '90s and early 00's. This is very different. The DPP was created on order to ensure this didn't happen.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by BaronAmongYou View Post
    It might be a little different in the current year version of the liberal party. I've asked before if anyone can remember an equivalent occurrence in Canadian politics. I can't.

    It is funny that in this government everyone is pretty much fine with a white man, in a leadership position, pressuring a subordinate woman of color. Progressive politics are fun.
    It makes no difference what colour or gender any of the principals is when the whole situation is just wrong. I suspect the only reason you think it's funny is because it's not happening to the party you voted for, but maybe that's just me being snide.

    I just don't think that when it comes to gaining or retaining political power any of the parties are lily white. If the equivalent hasn't happened before I suspect it's just because the situation never came up, but maybe that's just me being cynical. I'm repeatedly amazed how seemingly intelligent people do the most outrageous things and seem to think either, 1) that what they've done is no big deal, or 2) no one will notice and there will be no consequences.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    Mate,

    I worked out there in the late '90s and early 00's. This is very different. The DPP was created on order to ensure this didn't happen.
    But surely someone must have suspected something like this would happen, or why create the DPP in the first place. I have no axe to grind on either political side and have voted for all three of the main federal parties at one time or another when I agreed the most with their platform. I'm just becoming more and more cynical about the seemingly overwhelming need by politicians to seek and retain power, no matter what the cost.
    GO ESKS GO!

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by GungaDin View Post
    It makes no difference what colour or gender any of the principals is when the whole situation is just wrong. I suspect the only reason you think it's funny is because it's not happening to the party you voted for, but maybe that's just me being snide.

    I just don't think that when it comes to gaining or retaining political power any of the parties are lily white. If the equivalent hasn't happened before I suspect it's just because the situation never came up, but maybe that's just me being cynical. I'm repeatedly amazed how seemingly intelligent people do the most outrageous things and seem to think either, 1) that what they've done is no big deal, or 2) no one will notice and there will be no consequences.

    - - - Updated - - -



    But surely someone must have suspected something like this would happen, or why create the DPP in the first place. I have no axe to grind on either political side and have voted for all three of the main federal parties at one time or another when I agreed the most with their platform. I'm just becoming more and more cynical about the seemingly overwhelming need by politicians to seek and retain power, no matter what the cost.
    Yes. That smart fella was Stephen Harper. The DPA was created by him to PREVENT this kind of garbage.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by BaronAmongYou View Post
    It might be a little different in the current year version of the liberal party. I've asked before if anyone can remember an equivalent occurrence in Canadian politics. I can't.

    It is funny that in this government everyone is pretty much fine with a white man, in a leadership position, pressuring a subordinate woman of color. Progressive politics are fun.
    According to today's Journal article Brian Mulroney's memoirs don't agree with JWR and Kim Campbell's versions of events that he didn't interfere with Campbell, who was then his then AG, in the David Milgaard case. In Mulroney's memoirs he told Campbell to send the Milgaard case to the Supreme Court, even though she told him "The matter has been reviewed by the department and I have conveyed our decision". Close enough?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    Yes. That smart fella was Stephen Harper. The DPA was created by him to PREVENT this kind of garbage.
    Well that's one thing I can agree with Harper on. I believe at the time I was voting NDP federally though.
    GO ESKS GO!

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Well, I have to pause my outrage over the PM, Finance Minister & staff, Clerk of the Privy Council (supposed to be non-partisan), PM's Principal Secretary, PM's Chief of Staff and others attempting to politically interfere in a federal prosecution because the person being strong-armed for months, who repeatedly warned how inappropriate it was and who had endured veiled threats that her job was on the line recorded a conversation to protect herself.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    I wonder if JWR would come off smelling like roses if it was reversed and the other party recorded her and she wasn't aware of it. Let's face it, she played her situation to that recording (and perhaps other recordings)
    Again - not dismissing anything by any of the other parties - not for a moment, but I don't think Wilson-Raybould is all sunshine and butterflies. There is something deeper going on here in my opinion.
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    I wonder if JWR would come off smelling like roses if it was reversed and the other party recorded her and she wasn't aware of it. Let's face it, she played her situation to that recording (and perhaps other recordings)
    Again - not dismissing anything by any of the other parties - not for a moment, but I don't think Wilson-Raybould is all sunshine and butterflies. There is something deeper going on here in my opinion.
    She protected herself, after protecting our country's rule of law.

    As a voter I'm not going to be distracted by jaywalking when a murder has taken place.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Trudeau and the Liberals are getting fantastically lucky heading into the next election. They have done everything in their power to screw up and squander their popularity. Normally that would mean a change to the pcs but as pointed out in a CBC article today once kenny wins trudeau will have kenny and ford to bash and demonize.

    Also the Federal NDP and their leader are so bad that support will go over to the liberals. The NDP were so utterly stupid to toss mulcair.

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Trudeau and the Liberals are getting fantastically lucky heading into the next election. They have done everything in their power to screw up and squander their popularity. Normally that would mean a change to the pcs but as pointed out in a CBC article today once kenny wins trudeau will have kenny and ford to bash and demonize.

    Also the Federal NDP and their leader are so bad that support will go over to the liberals. The NDP were so utterly stupid to toss mulcair.
    I think the federal election will be decided in the campaign itself. Scheer isn't dynamic enough to capitalize on Trudeau's many, many, many mistakes and clear, glaring phoniness.

    The Conservatives lead every poll right now anywhere from 2-9 points. I don't expect that the gap will be wider come September when the election gets called.

    And yes, the NDP were monumentally stupid to ditch Mulcair.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    I think the federal election will be decided in the campaign itself. Scheer isn't dynamic enough to capitalize on Trudeau's many, many, many mistakes and clear, glaring phoniness.

    The Conservatives lead every poll right now anywhere from 2-9 points. I don't expect that the gap will be wider come September when the election gets called.

    And yes, the NDP were monumentally stupid to ditch Mulcair.
    On THAT we agree!
    In Rod we trust

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card


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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    Is the centre Quebec?
    "Here comes the rush...Ray looking endzone, Fred. Stamps. TOUCHDOWN!" - Fred Stamps' TD with 8 seconds left against the Stampeders in 2009

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    Re: The Justin Trudeau Report Card

    If Quebec was one of the players in the cartoon it would have been x-rated because he would have been f*cking everyone else and smiling like a giant douche.
    Just a quick shout out to Mr."Winning isn't everything" for pis*ing away not one but TWO HoF QB's. F*ck you Len and good riddance.

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