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Thread: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Your assumption is that Holland never dreamed of any of these scenarios that you think could have happened. In fact, it is highly unlikely that Ken Holland didn't try to make some trades and signings. Just because it didn't happen doesn't mean he didn't try. At least he didn't make some stupid move just to show he did something.

    Like I've said before, he can read the chart. One year deals and in a year a whole bunch of cap space comes open and in two a whole bunch more. That IS the better way.

    Fans will hate it, but it is better just to clear out the crap without giving up assets.

    And there's a lot of time between now and training camp. I very much doubt that we've seen all that there is to see. But nothing major will happen.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Just in a bubble here, because we know the trade happened and it was strictly dollars and cents.

    In what way is this team not infinitely better off having trading Brandon Manning for James Reimer at 50% salary than not trading him and singing Mike Smith to a potentially $4,000,000 deal?

    Everyone knew Reimer was going to be dealt. Given how quickly they jumped on Mike Smith (who, also, could have some of those bonuses eat into next years cap), it looks like they made a decision and didn't explore all options.

    They bought out Sekera and for what? To sign 3 fourth line forwards? Why bother... and again, one of those fourth line forwards is Alex Chiasson, who is signed for 2 years.

    Alex Chiasson Pre-All Star break: 41GP 17G 7A 24P 27% Shooting 16:27 a night
    Alex Chiasson Post-All Star break: 32GP 5G 9A 14P 8% Shooting 17:38 a night including #1 PP.

    He's going to get minutes beyond what he's capable of and produce 12 goals and 12 assists and become another ****ty contract on the team.

    They're potentially paying Rej $2,500,000 and Mike Smith $1,750,000 to not play for them next year. Then Chiasson, who is again a replacement level player - he came here on a PTO for a reason - $2,215,000 to be a replacement level player.

    That's as much as $6,465,000 on an $83,000,000 cap next year that Holland will be paying on moves he decided to do. Almost 8% of the cap wasted.

    It's the same old death by a million paper cuts routine. Buy out Pouliot with oodles of cap space for no reason. Trade Eberle for cap space and don't use it, now somehow have Sam Gagner on the roster for $3,125,000 after Eberle's deal would have expired. Give Kris Russell a full ****ing NMC and 4x4 when he wants to play in one of two cities. Sign Draisatl for an extra $1,000,000. Koskinen x2. Hold onto Chiasson and Kassian at the TDL for inexplicable reasons when both could have got you the picks that would let you trade for Andrew Shaw this summer.

    The Sekera buyout on it's own won't kill them. The Chiasson contract alone won't kill them. The Mike Smith contract alone likely won't kill them but if he falls even further off the cliff oh boy it just might.

    It's like the airplane that crashes because of 20 things wrong with it - all of which on their own are fine and you can work through but combined become a complete disaster.

    I hoped for the best but on July 7th it appears safe to say it turned out like always.
    Last edited by PDO; 07-07-2019 at 01:17 PM.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    I'm not saying that Holland doesn't know that this is a lotto team. He absolutely does.

    But 24 months from now the Oilers are going to be in an extremely enviable position. Loads of cap space, loads of assets, good young defensemen ready to play in the NHL.

    Haven't we seen enough gambling with the future just to try something today. Holland warned that he would be patient.

    How many games has Sekera played in the last 2 seasons? What did Dallas sign him for? For what term?
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    I'm not saying that Holland doesn't know that this is a lotto team. He absolutely does.

    But 24 months from now the Oilers are going to be in an extremely enviable position. Loads of cap space, loads of assets, good young defensemen ready to play in the NHL.

    Haven't we seen enough gambling with the future just to try something today. Holland warned that he would be patient.

    How many games has Sekera played in the last 2 seasons? What did Dallas sign him for? For what term?
    Unless 97 says **** it I want to win....
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    Unless 97 says **** it I want to win....
    You're not going to. Not this year, anyway.

    Anyway, the Oilers can never be truly successful until they switch back to blue jerseys again. Dress like a WHA team, play like a WHA team.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    They're potentially paying Rej $2,500,000 and Mike Smith $1,750,000 to not play for them next year.
    Sorry to cherry pick as I can't argue against much in your post, but I do have to point out that if we are eating the full amount of Smith's bonus' I don't think we'll be complaining about his contract. To get them all, the Oilers would need to be a playoff team where he takes over the number 1 goalie spot.

    If they make the playoffs and he's the number 1 goalie through the year, odds are he's one of the team MVPs.

    Do like the Riemer idea though, I would have preferred that approach.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    Sorry to cherry pick as I can't argue against much in your post, but I do have to point out that if we are eating the full amount of Smith's bonus' I don't think we'll be complaining about his contract. To get them all, the Oilers would need to be a playoff team where he takes over the number 1 goalie spot.

    If they make the playoffs and he's the number 1 goalie through the year, odds are he's one of the team MVPs.

    Do like the Riemer idea though, I would have preferred that approach.
    That's a fair point; I believe it would take 50 GP and a playoff appearance? Unlikely he has a .898 in that scenario.

    I don't see him playing 40 games and having a .898 in another lost season as impossible though given who the other guy in net is.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    That's a fair point; I believe it would take 50 GP and a playoff appearance? Unlikely he has a .898 in that scenario.

    I don't see him playing 40 games and having a .898 in another lost season as impossible though given who the other guy in net is.
    On first account paragraph, I suspect that last $750K is also broken down as that is usually the case based on how far they go rather than just making the playoffs. Perhaps it $250K for qualifying, $250K for second round, $250K for third round. If so, no one would complain about the extra money if he's the starter dragging us to conference finals.

    Unfortuanately the second scenario is very much possible and could add up to $1M of bonus, so I think the team will try to leave a bit of cap space just in case.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    On first account paragraph, I suspect that last $750K is also broken down as that is usually the case based on how far they go rather than just making the playoffs. Perhaps it $250K for qualifying, $250K for second round, $250K for third round. If so, no one would complain about the extra money if he's the starter dragging us to conference finals.

    Unfortuanately the second scenario is very much possible and could add up to $1M of bonus, so I think the team will try to leave a bit of cap space just in case.
    You're probably right but I haven't seen it. If they make the third round and Mike Smith beats the odds and is a big part of that that's great but...... yeah, call me skeptical.

    That just snaps me back to James Reimer who had a similar year (.900 off the top of my head?) but at 6 years younger is *much* more likely to bounce back. And again could have been significantly cheaper, is used to being a backup but has taken over as a starter before and also would have dumped Brandon Manning (...... I still don't know how they did that. It's insane and Hitch apparently pushed for it as well as Peter and Hitch is still here so, great).

    Hard to compare when it's player for player swaps, but some of the trades made were very one sided and Holland desperately needed to win one.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    After years of swapping good assets for might-bes I'll take Holland's cautious approach to fixing our cap mess.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    After years of swapping good assets for might-bes I'll take Holland's cautious approach to fixing our cap mess.
    Peter was so beyond terrible I'm not sure we can learn anything from him other than never go full....... you know what RDJ said. #TropicThunder

    Taking no risk is just as bad as taking ridiculous risk; don't forget Tambo.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    Peter was so beyond terrible I'm not sure we can learn anything from him other than never go full....... you know what RDJ said. #TropicThunder

    Taking no risk is just as bad as taking ridiculous risk; don't forget Tambo.
    Well at least there is a new more politically correct way of saying it. "You went full Chia, man. Never go full Chia."

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    Peter was so beyond terrible I'm not sure we can learn anything from him other than never go full....... you know what RDJ said. #TropicThunder

    Taking no risk is just as bad as taking ridiculous risk; don't forget Tambo.
    Fair enough, mate. But he's looking 2 years down the road. I'm sure he tried to make deals. But waiting for the bad contracts to come off the books and plugging the roster with 1 year deals in the meantime isn't all that crazy.

    I get that fans will hate it. Me too. But not making stupid moves that cost the future is a refreshing change.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Could have offer sheeting Kevin Labanc for 4x4 for the small cost of a 2nd round pick and SJS would have been hard up to match.

    It didn't have to be this way and they didn't have to make huge future sacrifices to make it work, they just needed to be slightly creative.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    Could have offer sheeting Kevin Labanc for 4x4 for the small cost of a 2nd round pick and SJS would have been hard up to match.

    It didn't have to be this way and they didn't have to make huge future sacrifices to make it work, they just needed to be slightly creative.
    Okay. So even though you don't like Mike Smith (me neither) even with his cheapo 1 year deal the Oilers don't have $4M in space to make that offer sheet, mate. And no guarantee that SJ doesn't match it.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    Okay. So even though you don't like Mike Smith (me neither) even with his cheapo 1 year deal the Oilers don't have $4M in space to make that offer sheet, mate. And no guarantee that SJ doesn't match it.
    They have a hair under $4,000,000 in space right now with Brandon Manning & Kyle Brodziak still on the roster and not in the minors; they absolutely could have. Neither of them are NHLers any more and if you send them both down you're at $6,000,000 in space. More than enough to do that deal and still have $2,000,000 in cap space for "in season moves."

    And again that's before going down all the ways that Holland has already wasted cap space (Chiasson, not trading Manning for 50% Reimer, etc).
    Last edited by PDO; 07-09-2019 at 07:50 AM.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    They have a hair under $4,000,000 in space right now with Brandon Manning & Kyle Brodziak still on the roster and not in the minors; they absolutely could have. Neither of them are NHLers any more and if you send them both down you're at $6,000,000 in space. More than enough to do that deal and still have $2,000,000 in cap space for "in season moves."

    And again that's before going down all the ways that Holland has already wasted cap space (Chiasson, not trading Manning for 50% Reimer, etc).
    People keep forgetting that demoting someone doesn't save you the full $1.075M. You need to replace the player. So demoting Manning brings us to 6 contracted Dmen and we'd need to bring one up. Minimum salary this year is $700K (though some old contracts may allow to get to a $675K hit. So swapping Manning for say Jones/Bear/Lagesson you are only saving about $350K against the cap. Less so if the replacement is Bouchard,

    The point that they could have made the offer sheet is still valid as they will have a hair over $4M once the demotions and replacements are sorted out, but then we would defintely be carrying bonus money into next year if obtained and would be challenged to deal with IR transactions throughout the year.

    The way I see it, though the Oilers currently have $3.9M before demotion opportunities which means they have about $4.5M in potential cap. They also have $1.75M in potential bonus' (which could grow if guys on their ELCs make the team). If they want to have some flexibility to handle shorter term injuries throughout the year and cover some potential bonus risk they really shouldn't be signing anyone to fill the last roster spot (at least cap wise) for more than $3.5M unless a NHL salary greater than $1.5M is leaving in the process.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    PDO, you don't know that Holland could have traded Manning or that he didn't try. You just assume that all of these fantasies are possible.

    And at $2.1M, signing Chiasson is hardly wasted cap space. He'll score at worst a dozen goals for the Oilers.

    Let the friggin guy do his job for more than a few weeks before throwing him under the bus. You make more assumptions than a jealous girlfriend.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    PDO, you don't know that Holland could have traded Manning or that he didn't try. You just assume that all of these fantasies are possible.

    And at $2.1M, signing Chiasson is hardly wasted cap space. He'll score at worst a dozen goals for the Oilers.

    Let the friggin guy do his job for more than a few weeks before throwing him under the bus. You make more assumptions than a jealous girlfriend.
    Florida traded James Reimer at full tilt for Scott Darling and a 6th round pick. They spent nearly $6,000,000 buying him out.

    This isn't not knowing how a team values a player, it's $$. Buying out Manning and retaining on Reimer costs less money.

    It was widely reported that Reimer was available through multiple media sources.

    There's no fantasy here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    People keep forgetting that demoting someone doesn't save you the full $1.075M. You need to replace the player. So demoting Manning brings us to 6 contracted Dmen and we'd need to bring one up. Minimum salary this year is $700K (though some old contracts may allow to get to a $675K hit. So swapping Manning for say Jones/Bear/Lagesson you are only saving about $350K against the cap. Less so if the replacement is Bouchard,

    The point that they could have made the offer sheet is still valid as they will have a hair over $4M once the demotions and replacements are sorted out, but then we would defintely be carrying bonus money into next year if obtained and would be challenged to deal with IR transactions throughout the year.

    The way I see it, though the Oilers currently have $3.9M before demotion opportunities which means they have about $4.5M in potential cap. They also have $1.75M in potential bonus' (which could grow if guys on their ELCs make the team). If they want to have some flexibility to handle shorter term injuries throughout the year and cover some potential bonus risk they really shouldn't be signing anyone to fill the last roster spot (at least cap wise) for more than $3.5M unless a NHL salary greater than $1.5M is leaving in the process.
    23 man roster that has a 3.629 in cap space:

    Draisatl-McDavid-Chiasson
    Benson-RNH-Gagner
    Nygard-Maroody-Kassian
    Lucic-Khaira-Granlund
    Jurco, Cave

    Klefbom-Larsson
    Nurse-Russell
    Jones-Benning
    Persson

    Kosk/Smith

    What you stated out there runs a two way street because if you add Labanc than any single player you send down (ie Jurco) doesn't count any more. 4x4 was doable and cap compliant and at worst would have put the screws to San Jose.

    Also don't think you need to run a 23 man roster all year long, especially in October and November and those cap dollars keep saving up and multiplying throughout the year.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    Florida traded James Reimer at full tilt for Scott Darling and a 6th round pick. They spent nearly $6,000,000 buying him out.

    This isn't not knowing how a team values a player, it's $$. Buying out Manning and retaining on Reimer costs less money.

    It was widely reported that Reimer was available through multiple media sources.

    There's no fantasy here.

    - - - Updated - - -



    23 man roster that has a 3.629 in cap space:

    Draisatl-McDavid-Chiasson
    Benson-RNH-Gagner
    Nygard-Maroody-Kassian
    Lucic-Khaira-Granlund
    Jurco, Cave

    Klefbom-Larsson
    Nurse-Russell
    Jones-Benning
    Persson

    Kosk/Smith

    What you stated out there runs a two way street because if you add Labanc than any single player you send down (ie Jurco) doesn't count any more. 4x4 was doable and cap compliant and at worst would have put the screws to San Jose.

    Also don't think you need to run a 23 man roster all year long, especially in October and November and those cap dollars keep saving up and multiplying throughout the year.
    I agreed that it was doable, just so bloody tight that it wouldn't be desirable.

    The likely demotion for Lebanc on your list is Jurco or Benson which would give about $400K and change of cap space. With bonus money potential and short term injury situations in season, that's awfully tight. Yes, you can go with less than 23 man roster but that is also very risky with our situation as a high travel teams and we couldn't get guys up without at least 10-12 hours notice. That's why I think the most they can go to is about $3.5 on their last roster spot signing unless someone is shipped out along the way.

    I agree with your other comments though, I would have rather they tried to find a way to make the Reimer move you suggest as it seems to make sense from Florida's perspective.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Well, and there was no reason to sign 6 goals after Jan 1 on 18 minutes a night and PP1 while being mediocre defensively Alex Chiasson for 2 years and 2.15 per on July 1. Take him off and it's real easy to do it.

    Now Keith not trading him not only cost them a 3rd round pick at the deadline (that was reported, not fantasy) but also very usable cap space because of course they signed the guy for too much too long.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    Well, and there was no reason to sign 6 goals after Jan 1 on 18 minutes a night and PP1 while being mediocre defensively Alex Chiasson for 2 years and 2.15 per on July 1. Take him off and it's real easy to do it.

    Now Keith not trading him not only cost them a 3rd round pick at the deadline (that was reported, not fantasy) but also very usable cap space because of course they signed the guy for too much too long.
    By all means there are tons of examples we can look back at as to why we are where we are. And I agree with most of it. I just was trying to rationalize why an offer sheet of $4M in the current state wasn't the best option.

    The current state leaves the team no choice by to find the best scorer that doesn't find a dance partner by training camp as their second line scoring option. It sucks, but it's probably the last reasonable option available.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    I'm strictly talking about the Holland ones. It's a very, very ugly start.

    If he turns this into Hall next Summer I'll eat my share of crow but if I've learned anything about the Oilers since 06-07 it's to assume they'll **** it all up.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post

    There's no fantasy here.

    .
    Except the assumption that the other team would make that trade, and that Ken Holland never thought of trying that.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Finally, some pre-season expectations that the Oilers can live up to: https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...ey-cup-in-2020

    Although I still think they may be giving the Oilers too high of a chance.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Man...finding out the Oilers could have landed Ferland if they added another year after signing Chaisson to multiple years. This team is kind of infuriating sometimes...
    Quote from Inquiring Mind:

    Of course stamphater is sacred... we all worship the ground he walks on.

    #PizStrong

  27. #477
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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    I have no idea how Jake Gardiner is still a UFA.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

  28. #478
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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    So far Holland has been utter trash, no big surprise.

    I've said it on other forums, Holland is Tambo, except they are paying him 5 mill a year.

    Smart Gms make things happen that are good moves.

    Each day we hear, 'Well what do you expect him to do we have no cap! We have to get bargain players!" Meanwhile other teams just as strapped as us make moves.

  29. #479
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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    He would have been a perfect hire in 2015 when they literally just needed to do nothing for 2 years.

    Unforuntately that's not the the situation any more.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

  30. #480
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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    THE DEAL IS ONE FOR ONE!?!!?

    If this is true, it's an *excellent* deal by Holland.

    - - - Updated - - -

    For the record James Neal is probably cooked. That said, he's only a year removed from 25 goals, is slightly cheaper and can actually be bought out.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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