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Thread: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    Funny. If he actually plays a game, when he signs an NHL contract, he has to go through waivers. Let him play a game, trade him, then when he signs, pick him up on waivers.

    _____
    Sorry, forgot that's only on UFA/Offer Sheet.
    Last edited by bone; 08-27-2019 at 08:58 AM.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Hope he finds his head and lights things up in Finland so that he might actually be worth something on the trade market eventually.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    The Oilers didn't develop JP properly but in seeing JP play and especially how he has acted over the summer, I think there is plenty of blame on JP's part. Even if the Oilers had of developed JP properly, I think he tops out as a 3rd liner. I just don't see the mental game to be anything more than just an OK NHLer and given how JP handled things, I don't think he has the desire to live up to his physical gifts. If you truly think you are an NHL top 6 player, even though you are unhappy and you can even still want out of Edmonton, you are seeing the new GM and new coaching staff as an opportunity for a fresh start. The Oilers have TONS of opportunity on the Oilers to start low and move up fast. So if you are serious about being in the NHL and think you are good enough, then you sign a 1 yr deal and prove everyone wrong. You don't hold out, you don't keep mouthing off and you sure as hell don't sign a 1 yr deal to play in a lesser league if you think you are an NHLer. Based on what I read, the Finnish league MIGHT and it isn't a given but it might be close to on par with the AHL. By the sounds of it, it's not quite as good as the AHL. He didn't even sign in the best possible European league. So I don't expect much from him and I don't think this will help his trade value.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    I read on twitter the Oil didn't even interview him as they assumed he'd be gone by the time we drafted. I dunno man if the Finnish GM passes on a Finnish player that should be a HUGE red Flag.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Esks4ever View Post
    I read on twitter the Oil didn't even interview him as they assumed he'd be gone by the time we drafted. I dunno man if the Finnish GM passes on a Finnish player that should be a HUGE red Flag.
    I agree with you. I know some JP lovers say the reason Columbus passed on JP is because they needed a center, I don't buy that what so ever. There was a time when JP was ranked higher than Laine and for much of that year he was neck and neck with Laine. If a player is supposed to be that good, you don't pass up on him. I firmly believe that the Finnish GM who I would think would have a bit more inside information than most North American GM's knew the red flags of JP and passed.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    I agree with you. I know some JP lovers say the reason Columbus passed on JP is because they needed a center, I don't buy that what so ever. There was a time when JP was ranked higher than Laine and for much of that year he was neck and neck with Laine. If a player is supposed to be that good, you don't pass up on him. I firmly believe that the Finnish GM who I would think would have a bit more inside information than most North American GM's knew the red flags of JP and passed.
    The problem with everyone rating him so high is that it was based on a really small sample size of the World Juniors. Yes, there is a lot of skill there, so it's great if you can put in a good performance there, but I remember that his NHL-E in his regular league play wasn't anything spectacular. I mean it's all easy to say in hindsight now, and the Oilers certainly didn't do him any favors in the development department, but there were certainly a few warning signs and the "experts" don't always get it right.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nafnikufesin View Post
    The problem with everyone rating him so high is that it was based on a really small sample size of the World Juniors. Yes, there is a lot of skill there, so it's great if you can put in a good performance there, but I remember that his NHL-E in his regular league play wasn't anything spectacular. I mean it's all easy to say in hindsight now, and the Oilers certainly didn't do him any favors in the development department, but there were certainly a few warning signs and the "experts" don't always get it right.
    I am not letting the Oilers off the hook at all. They screwed up. They completely misread and mishandled his development. It's clear to me he needed to spend another year in Finland, then probably 2 full seasons in the AHL before he was called up at all. So after that in year 4 after his draft, maybe he is pushing to crack the NHL roster for a spot somewhere in the line up. My issue/concern with JP is if it was supposed to take him a minimum of 3 years after being drafted just to have a chance to crack the NHL full time, where would he have projected long term? When you are drafted in the top 5, you are supposed to be an impact player. I don't think any team uses a top 5 pick on a forward with the hopes that maybe one day he can play in the NHL somewhere in your line up. You are typically thinking a top 5 forward is going to be in your top 6 and be a very good player real quick. I would have thought that when you get picked in the top 5, even though the Oilers didn't develop him properly, if you are a legit player, after 3 years of pro hockey, he should at least be able to be a full time NHLer. Realistically, taking out the problem that he can't be sent to the minors without passing through waivers, if he was waiver eligible and it came down to him just being one of the best 12 forwards, could JP with where he is at today crack any teams NHL roster? I am not sure if it came down to straight up winning a job that JP would be on of the Oilers top 12 forwards this season.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    I am not letting the Oilers off the hook at all. They screwed up. They completely misread and mishandled his development.
    That's all that needs to be said, isn't it?

    He's off to Finland. Hopefully he lights it up so we can get something more than a bag of pucks in a trade. He's not going to play for the Oilers again. Time to move forward.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    That's all that needs to be said, isn't it?

    He's off to Finland. Hopefully he lights it up so we can get something more than a bag of pucks in a trade. He's not going to play for the Oilers again. Time to move forward.
    100%, the Oilers screwed up with him. My concern though is if they didn't screw up his developed, I am not convinced there is much of a player there. Definitely not enough to warrant the 4th overall. I read yesterday that Holland said pretty much every team would have taken him where the Oilers took him so what got missed with this guy? He was in the conversation for much of his draft year to be the #2 and he can't even make the NHL as a bottom 6 guy after 3 yrs. Yes the Oilers deserve lots of blame but so does JP IMO. So what got missed from most of the NHL teams that Columbus knew and is it something that can happen again. Teams can't miss on top 5 picks. When you get drafted that high, being an NHLer is usually a given regardless of development. How a team develops you can have a big impact on where a player ultimately ends up career wise but if a team has to invest 3-4 yrs of hardcore development just to get a top 5 player to be an everyday top 12 NHLer, clearly they were taken WAY too high and there is something up with that player.
    Last edited by Sectionq; 08-28-2019 at 09:57 AM.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    100%, the Oilers screwed up with him. My concern though is if they didn't screw up his developed, I am not convinced there is much of a player there. Definitely not enough to warrant the 4th overall. I read yesterday that Holland said pretty much every team would have taken him where the Oilers took him so what got missed with this guy? He was in the conversation for much of his draft year to be the #2 and he can't even make the NHL as a bottom 6 guy after 3 yrs. Yes the Oilers deserve lots of blame but so does JP IMO. So what got missed from most of the NHL teams that Columbus knew and is it something that can happen again. Teams can't miss on top 5 picks.
    Well, we'll never know, IMO.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Esks4ever View Post
    I read on twitter the Oil didn't even interview him as they assumed he'd be gone by the time we drafted. I dunno man if the Finnish GM passes on a Finnish player that should be a HUGE red Flag.
    Why?

    Is it a huge red flag when a Canadian GM passes on a Canadian player?
    "No one entertains the thought that maybe God does not believe in you." - Bo Burnham

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Hindsight is always 20-20. Nail Yakupov says "hello".

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
    Why?

    Is it a huge red flag when a Canadian GM passes on a Canadian player?

    Finland would have less players to watch than Canada. So there would be more time per players. the finnish GM would have a better feel of JP from his people IMO. No?

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Esks4ever View Post
    Finland would have less players to watch than Canada. So there would be more time per players. the finnish GM would have a better feel of JP from his people IMO. No?
    Nah, I don't think that at all. For all we know he was super high on JP and just liked Dubois more. And it might not even have been his decision. GM's usually trust their scouting staff to make the pick.
    Last edited by Angelus; 08-29-2019 at 03:27 PM.
    "No one entertains the thought that maybe God does not believe in you." - Bo Burnham

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    They're gonna trade him for nothing and he's gonna blossom. Dude's younger than Tyler Benson.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    They're gonna trade him for nothing and he's gonna blossom. Dude's younger than Tyler Benson.
    Mate, you don't know that. If the Oilers had followed their past 10 years MO he would already have been traded for a 5th round pick in 2027.

    They called his bluff and will win on this as far as they now can. If he blossoms then he gets traded for value. If he doesn't then...well...we already fir'd pete.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    Mate, you don't know that. If the Oilers had followed their past 10 years MO he would already have been traded for a 5th round pick in 2027.

    They called his bluff and will win on this as far as they now can. If he blossoms then he gets traded for value. If he doesn't then...well...we already fir'd pete.
    You're not wrong, but let's not pretend Holland's resume the past decade isn't every bit as terrible as Tambo's or MacT's (nobodies is as terrible as tracksuit was).
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    You're not wrong, but let's not pretend Holland's resume the past decade isn't every bit as terrible as Tambo's or MacT's (nobodies is as terrible as tracksuit was).
    You're joking. Playoffs 7 of 10 years. Yeah, missed the last 3, but rebuilds don't take 1 season.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    You're joking. Playoffs 7 of 10 years. Yeah, missed the last 3, but rebuilds don't take 1 season.
    https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/staff/ken-holland

    Take a look at his Detroit trades and find a clear win.

    Look at all the horrible contracts he gave out that forced Detroit into the position they're in. They're a terrible and expensive team. Their prospect pool is average at best despite having 3 straight years of top ten picks.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/staff/ken-holland

    Take a look at his Detroit trades and find a clear win.

    Look at all the horrible contracts he gave out that forced Detroit into the position they're in. They're a terrible and expensive team. Their prospect pool is average at best despite having 3 straight years of top ten picks.
    That's YOUR assessment. Mate, you're smart and you know hockey, but you're emotional and you're NOT always right.
    Cough...Horcoff is elite...cough.....
    You'd rather have Tambo or MacT than a guy that got a team to the playoffs 7 of 10 years in the salary cap era? Really?
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    My favourite time of year....training camp and my ability to convince myself our forward group isn't going to be a tire fire!
    Quote from Inquiring Mind:

    Of course stamphater is sacred... we all worship the ground he walks on.

    #PizStrong

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by stamphater View Post
    My favourite time of year....training camp and my ability to convince myself our forward group isn't going to be a tire fire!
    We have big problems if Cooper Maroody and Tyler Benson don't make opening night. They need them to both come in and be instant contributors. They're both in their 20's, if they're ever gonna be anything they'll be something this year. This "over percolating" nonsense is just that - nonsense. It's also almost impossible to imagine the team being successful without several guys shooting over reasonable expectations and young prospects who lit it up in the AHL last year are are the most likely to be able to do that, as long as those odds may be.

    I actually like several of the fourth liners that Holland has brought in but he simply brought in way too many.

    It also seems impossible to construct a roster with both Gagner and Chiasson that makes any lick of sense strategically.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    I've never been less excited for an Oilers season. Listening to yeg MSM talk about Nygard and Haas and Archibald and Granlund and Jurco...yawn. Who cares. These guys aren't saving anything. Another long year ahead and another wasted season for 97.
    "No one entertains the thought that maybe God does not believe in you." - Bo Burnham

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
    I've never been less excited for an Oilers season. Listening to yeg MSM talk about Nygard and Haas and Archibald and Granlund and Jurco...yawn. Who cares. These guys aren't saving anything. Another long year ahead and another wasted season for 97.
    Noting exciting is going to happen until the year after next. That's when all the crap salaries are off the books.

    But, the Oilers bottom 6 were the worst for scoring in modern NHL history. Even if they only add 20 goals from their bottom 6, they will still be in the conversation at Christmas. They won't make the playoffs, but it seems almost impossible mathematically for them to be as bad as last year.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    Noting exciting is going to happen until the year after next. That's when all the crap salaries are off the books.

    But, the Oilers bottom 6 were the worst for scoring in modern NHL history. Even if they only add 20 goals from their bottom 6, they will still be in the conversation at Christmas. They won't make the playoffs, but it seems almost impossible mathematically for them to be as bad as last year.
    Goaltending is 50% of the game unless you don't have it and then it's 100%.

    They have the 38th and 47th ranked goalie's based on save percentage last year for players that played more than 25 games. I laugh out loud at this whole Mike Smith challenging for the starting position. It's hilarious.
    "No one entertains the thought that maybe God does not believe in you." - Bo Burnham

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
    Goaltending is 50% of the game unless you don't have it and then it's 100%.

    They have the 38th and 47th ranked goalie's based on save percentage last year for players that played more than 25 games. I laugh out loud at this whole Mike Smith challenging for the starting position. It's hilarious.
    It's hilarious, but it's true as the guy he's challenging isn't exactly a high bar to surpass. Although, that's maybe your point.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    The lower we finish this year the better, IMO. We're not going to make the playoffs so we should at least get a good pick.

    And at the end of this season the following players come off the books:
    Gagner
    Kassian
    Granlund
    Archibald
    Nygard
    Sheahan
    Turco
    Manning
    Smith

    At the end of the following season Larsson and Russell will be off the books, so they will both be traded.

    Holland's plan is a slow one, but I get what he is doing. Fans won't like it, but it is the best way, IMO.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    The lower we finish this year the better, IMO. We're not going to make the playoffs so we should at least get a good pick.

    And at the end of this season the following players come off the books:
    Gagner
    Kassian
    Granlund
    Archibald
    Nygard
    Sheahan
    Turco
    Manning
    Smith

    At the end of the following season Larsson and Russell will be off the books, so they will both be traded.

    Holland's plan is a slow one, but I get what he is doing. Fans won't like it, but it is the best way, IMO.
    Wow, did we bring Marty Turco out of retirement to play net. It may be our best option.

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