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Thread: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Meet the new boss guys. He's same as the old one.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    He's actually managed to make the Oilers worse.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    We have about 482309230923 4th liners now though.

    I have no idea what the **** he's doing.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    as soon as everyone realized top free agent hell even mediocre ones have zero desire to come to edmonton they better off they'll be. Drink up.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    We have about 482309230923 4th liners now though.

    I have no idea what the **** he's doing.
    I do. He's diving for draft picks. He doesn't think he can get Lucic off the books via a trade, and he is stuck with Koskinen too. He thinks Sekera was too old, injury prone and expensive. He doesn't think he CAN improve the team in the short term, so he's going bottom fishing. Getting contracts off the old, slow way by letting them run their course.

    I think he's wrong. And Oiler fans will stop buying tickets this year. 97 will ask for a trade after this season. Guaranteed.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    It looks very much, to me, like Holland is trying to wait out the final 2 years on Russell's $M a year contract. At that point is will be easier to offload Lucic as well. So for the next 2 years the Oilers are going to suck.

    I don't think that Oilers fans or McDavid will be okay with that. There will be many empty seats in tat arena in 2020-21.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    I hope there are.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    It looks very much, to me, like Holland is trying to wait out the final 2 years on Russell's $M a year contract. At that point is will be easier to offload Lucic as well. So for the next 2 years the Oilers are going to suck.

    I don't think that Oilers fans or McDavid will be okay with that. There will be many empty seats in tat arena in 2020-21.
    Yeah, his plan is telegraphed. He's wants to evaluate players to determine who's worthy of being in the 7/3/1 core for expansion. So he's going with short term deals on guys who may or may not pan out. If things go well, he'll find the 7/3/1 either internally or by shopping the European overager route and if he doesn't, he wants as much cap space as possible to take advantage of the expansion where teams may be selling assets at a better price to avoid expansion exposure.

    Normally that would not be a bad plan, but the Edmonton market isn't ready to be any more patient and who can blame them. Hopefully, at least McDavid is willing to wait it out.

    In the meantime our only hope is for a lucky breakout by some of these also-rans, elite performance out of one of the goalies, or that the 300 game threshold for defensemen is real because 3 of the current top 6 either just hit it or will in the next 95 games.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Yup. When you look at their chart, they now only have a few guys signed to long term contracts. A whole whack of them come up next year.

    Main Roster Guys
    Signed for 3+ years:
    McDavid
    Draisitl
    Lucic
    Klefbom
    Koskinen

    Up in 2 years:
    Nugent Hopkins
    Chiasson
    Khaira (RFA)
    Larsson
    Russell

    Up after this year:
    Gagner
    Kassian
    Granlund
    Brodziak
    Nurse (RFA)
    Manning
    Benning (RFA)
    Smith

    That's a lot going out the door in 2 years. Practically 3/4 roster minus a core set of guys you want to keep (including RFAs), except Lucic and Koskinen.

    Holland will have to move both of them out by the end of the second year.

    They are in cap hell right now, but that turns around 180 in 24 months. If one of Bear, Jones, Bouchard actually become an NHL player, then that's a bonus.

    But it's going to be a long 2 years. Can't see the Oilers making the playoffs. Fans are gonna freak out. Don't blame them one bit. But I see what his plan is. And in his defense, he did tell us that he would be taking a long-term "patient" approach.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    I don't know that I trust Holland to fix Chiarelli's mess. But let's make no mistake about this, this is Chiarelli's mess, and he set the team years behind, which is more unacceptable given the fact that most of McDavid's best years will have been wasted by the time the situation is corrected...if it is corrected.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nafnikufesin View Post
    I don't know that I trust Holland to fix Chiarelli's mess. But let's make no mistake about this, this is Chiarelli's mess, and he set the team years behind, which is more unacceptable given the fact that most of McDavid's best years will have been wasted by the time the situation is corrected...if it is corrected.
    Looking back, I sure wish they would have just cut bait last summer when there was some discussion. As bad as his trades were the first few years, we'd at least have been better off without the moves he made in his last 6 months:

    Out:
    Strome
    6th rounder
    Caggiula
    Garrison
    3rd rounder

    In:
    Spooner (eventually bailed out somewhat by Kretzky getting Gagner after Chia fired, but Strome would still be more useful for what the team actually needs)
    Manning
    larger overall cap hit

    Also the massive overpay on Kosko isn't helping much.
    Last edited by bone; 07-03-2019 at 03:28 PM.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    Looking back, I sure wish they would have just cut bait last summer when there was some discussion. As bad as his trades were the first few years, we'd at least have been better off without the moves he made in his last 6 months:

    Out:
    Strome
    6th rounder
    Caggiula
    Garrison
    3rd rounder

    In:
    Spooner (eventually bailed out somewhat by Kretzky getting Gagner after Chia fired, but Strome would still be more useful for what the team actually needs)
    Manning
    larger overall cap hit

    Also the massive overpay on Kosko isn't helping much.
    A lot gets cleared up in 24 months. By then the only bad contracts you still have are Lucic and Kosko, and you should be able to move those out.

    That's why he's signing 1 year deals. Its gonna suck for those two years unless we get lucky and a couple of guys pan out far better than expected.

    But after that, you've got loads and loads of cap room and a nice crop of young defensemen coming up. Plus, McDavid (assuming he doesn't ask for a trade) for 5 years beyond those 2 (he's only 22 right now and will be 24 when we have all of that space) and Draisaitl for 4 years beyond that and he's only 23.

    It's a lotto team this year, based on today's roster. But next year there's more room. The year after a LOT more.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    It wasn't that hard to make this roster competitive this year but Holland gets paid $5,000,000 a year to be uncreative.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    How do our wingers get so much ****tier every year??

    Can someone give me a bit of hope than we can still swing a deal to find someone in the top 6? Or is that going to involve Nurse or Nuge to get that deal done?
    Quote from Inquiring Mind:

    Of course stamphater is sacred... we all worship the ground he walks on.

    #PizStrong

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    It wasn't that hard to make this roster competitive this year but Holland gets paid $5,000,000 a year to be uncreative.
    I love talking hockey with you, mate. But....You are 100% wrong. It was hard. Very hard. A LOT if dead weight and crappy contracts have to be cleared out.

    WHO was gonna take Lucic for value? WHO is gonna take PoolParty for anything of relative value? They needed 1. Cap space, 2. A winger, 3. Upgrades on 4 of their bottom 6.

    Yes. VERY hard. The team is defo worse now. But I see the plan. And it is the better plan, mate. Fans will hate it. I hate it. But it is the better way forward.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    I love talking hockey with you, mate. But....You are 100% wrong. It was hard. Very hard. A LOT if dead weight and crappy contracts have to be cleared out.

    WHO was gonna take Lucic for value? WHO is gonna take PoolParty for anything of relative value? They needed 1. Cap space, 2. A winger, 3. Upgrades on 4 of their bottom 6.

    Yes. VERY hard. The team is defo worse now. But I see the plan. And it is the better plan, mate. Fans will hate it. I hate it. But it is the better way forward.
    What are you talking about? The Leafs managed to clear out like 15M in cap space (without buying anyone out) and then added Kerfoot AND Barrie. You have to be smart and creative, none of which Holland appears to be.
    "No one entertains the thought that maybe God does not believe in you." - Bo Burnham

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
    What are you talking about? The Leafs managed to clear out like 15M in cap space (without buying anyone out) and then added Kerfoot AND Barrie. You have to be smart and creative, none of which Holland appears to be.
    Our situation is much more difficult than Toronto's was, mate. They aren't comparable. The Chiarelli mess is massive. The best way to deal with it is to fill the roster with 1 year contracts and wait out the bad ones. That's what Holland is doing.

    There is no creative solution to having overpaid players on your roster that nobody else wants. There was a market for some of Toronto's players. Nobody wants Lucic or PoolParty or Koskinen. You saw what Sekera got in free agency. That indicates what kind fo market there was for him. Other teams know that Russell is a bone head.

    And by the way, look at Toronto's cap hit and roster. They will have to either trade Marner, or make trades to create the space to keep him. They're not in a great position either.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    Our situation is much more difficult than Toronto's was, mate. They aren't comparable. The Chiarelli mess is massive. The best way to deal with it is to fill the roster with 1 year contracts and wait out the bad ones. That's what Holland is doing.

    There is no creative solution to having overpaid players on your roster that nobody else wants. There was a market for some of Toronto's players. Nobody wants Lucic or PoolParty or Koskinen. You saw what Sekera got in free agency. That indicates what kind fo market there was for him. Other teams know that Russell is a bone head.

    And by the way, look at Toronto's cap hit and roster. They will have to either trade Marner, or make trades to create the space to keep him. They're not in a great position either.
    I refuse you believe you can offload Marleau, Darling, Zaitsev, Reimer but can't offload Sekera or Russell. And I refuse to believe you can offload Nathan Horton or David Clarkson but can't offload Lucic. I am not saying this is easy, but it can absolutely be done. Kinger got roasted on twitter saying that they should have traded Manning for Reimer which is actually brilliant because the buyout on Manning would have cost less for Florida and would have solved our backup goaltending issue with a better and cheaper (when you consider offloading Manning) solution.

    And Toronto is in great shape because they have guys like Reilly, Nylander, Kerfoot, Andersen, Johnsson and Kapanen at really great price points. Plus they have a great GM - something we've been dying for forever.
    Last edited by Angelus; 07-05-2019 at 12:06 PM.
    "No one entertains the thought that maybe God does not believe in you." - Bo Burnham

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
    I refuse you believe you can offload Marleau, Darling, Zaitsev, Reimer but can't offload Sekera or Russell. And I refuse to believe you can offload Nathan Horton or David Clarkson but can't offload Lucic. I am not saying this is easy, but it can absolutely be done.

    And Toronto is in great shape because they have guys like Reilly, Nylander, Kerfoot, Andersen, Johnsson and Kapanen at really great price points. Plus they have a great GM - something we've been dying for forever.
    Toronto paid a 1st round pick to rid themselves of Marleau, mate. If Holland had done that you'd be screaming bloody murder.

    With Zaitsev it was a 6 player hockey trade, which is not a normal thing anymore. Zaitsev is 27 and is on a long-term deal at $4.5M, a lot easier to offload than Lucic's 31 years and $6M or Sekera's 33 years and $5.5M price tag. Sekera signed in Dallas for 1 year at $1.5M. There was NO market for him.

    And one of those players you love from Toronto will have to go to keep Marner or Marner goes. He wants $10M+ and they have $3M in space.

    Oiler fans who think that Holland wasn't trying to make these moves happen are likely wrong. But thinking it is "easy" is fantasy. Again, NOBODY wants Lucic or much of our other baggage.

    But by filling out the roster with 1 year deals on July 1st next year the Oilers will have almost $14M in cap space.
    Last edited by Deathsdoorstep; 07-05-2019 at 12:19 PM.
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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    Toronto paid a 1st round pick to rid themselves of Marleau, mate. If Holland had done that you'd be screaming bloody murder.

    With Zaitsev it was a 6 player hockey trade, which is not a normal thing anymore. Zaitsev is 27 and is on a long-term deal at $4.5M, a lot easier to offload than Lucic's 31 years and $6M or Sekera's 33 years and $5.5M price tag. Sekera signed in Dallas for 1 year at $1.5M. There was NO market for him.

    And one of those players you love from Toronto will have to go to keep Marner or Marner goes. He wants $10M+ and they have $3M in space.

    Oiler fans who think that Holland wasn't trying to make these moves happen are likely wrong. But thinking it is "easy" is fantasy. Again, NOBODY wants Lucic or much of our other baggage.

    But by filling out the roster with 1 year deals on July 1st next year the Oilers will have almost $14M in cap space.
    LOL I never said it was easy. In fact, I said the opposite. I also never said what it would take...I know it took a 1st rounder for Marleau. I never compared Zaitsev to Lucic - I compared Lucic to Horton and Clarkson. You are just stating things that aren't comparable trying to back up your point and it doesn't really make sense.

    Toronto may only have 3-4M in cap space but Horton will go on LTIR. They have a GM who will find a way to make it work. And you know what, if Marner does sign an offer sheet, maybe 4 first rounders plus cap space will benefit them even more.

    Holland's history suggests he has no idea how to make these trades. He never does it and he killed Detroit because of it.
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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    And 14M in cap space is nothing when Darnell Nurse is going to suck up half of it.
    "No one entertains the thought that maybe God does not believe in you." - Bo Burnham

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
    LOL I never said it was easy. In fact, I said the opposite. I also never said what it would take...I know it took a 1st rounder for Marleau. I never compared Zaitsev to Lucic - I compared Lucic to Horton and Clarkson. You are just stating things that aren't comparable trying to back up your point and it doesn't really make sense.

    Toronto may only have 3-4M in cap space but Horton will go on LTIR. They have a GM who will find a way to make it work. And you know what, if Marner does sign an offer sheet, maybe 4 first rounders plus cap space will benefit them even more.

    Holland's history suggests he has no idea how to make these trades. He never does it and he killed Detroit because of it.
    They are relevant because they are the moves that Edmonton would need to make to gain the space they need to improve the team. It was you that said that since TO did this or that then its possible for Edmonton to make their moves. I just simply showed that those moves were far easier to make than the moves Edmonton needs to make. And you simply ignored it. Fine.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
    And 14M in cap space is nothing when Darnell Nurse is going to suck up half of it.
    You gain another $4M the year after because Russell is gone and at that point Lucic only has 2 years left which makes the buyout possible.
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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    They are relevant because they are the moves that Edmonton would need to make to gain the space they need to improve the team. It was you that said that since TO did this or that then its possible for Edmonton to make their moves. I just simply showed that those moves were far easier to make than the moves Edmonton needs to make. And you simply ignored it. Fine.
    I didn't ignore it. I said that you can't tell me they can move Zaitsev and Marleau but we can't move Sekera and/or Russell. Do you honestly disagree with that? Instead of looking at those options, you are bringing up Lucic which is an entirely different argument.

    I mostly agree on Lucic. I think it can be done, but the cost would be extraordinary and probably not worth it.

    Kinger said Manning for Reimer. That would have been a brilliant move. But Holland probably can't even bring himself to consider something like that.
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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
    I didn't ignore it. I said that you can't tell me they can move Zaitsev and Marleau but we can't move Sekera and/or Russell. Do you honestly disagree with that? Instead of looking at those options, you are bringing up Lucic which is an entirely different argument.

    I mostly agree on Lucic. I think it can be done, but the cost would be extraordinary and probably not worth it.

    Kinger said Manning for Reimer. That would have been a brilliant move. But Holland probably can't even bring himself to consider something like that.
    Yes, I honestly disagree. I stated why, with facts. Russell is on a $4M deal and he's a bone head and other GMs know that. Sekera is old and injured all the time and could only get a 1 year $1.5M deal. Nobody was going to take his $5M contract. If you don't think Holland tried to move both guys, you're wrong.
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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
    LOL I never said it was easy. In fact, I said the opposite. I also never said what it would take...I know it took a 1st rounder for Marleau. I never compared Zaitsev to Lucic - I compared Lucic to Horton and Clarkson. You are just stating things that aren't comparable trying to back up your point and it doesn't really make sense.

    Toronto may only have 3-4M in cap space but Horton will go on LTIR. They have a GM who will find a way to make it work. And you know what, if Marner does sign an offer sheet, maybe 4 first rounders plus cap space will benefit them even more.

    Holland's history suggests he has no idea how to make these trades. He never does it and he killed Detroit because of it.
    Though I generally agree with you on this, he did manage to offload Datsyuk's contract when in Detroit.

    The difference in offloading Clarkson for Horton or the Datsyuk trades though is that there was opportunity for budget strapped teams to save money while eating cap because the players were never coming back. The problem with Lucic's is that he's still playing so the saving vs. cap aren't enough and he has to agree to it. If he was retiring due to injury he wouldn't care who he was traded to and those opportunities would open up (especially if his contract is insured).

    I do agree with you that there may be a trade somewhere that works for Lucic, but it could be that the pieces to make it work may be even more damaging to the long term success of the team than eating another year or two at least and re-evaluating each year. Seeing Carolina take a 1st rounder and a slight downgrade on their 6th rounder to eat one year of Marleau, might it take 4 times that value to eat 4 years of Lucic?

    PS. The Horton/Clarkson trade was two GMs ago. Has anything officially documenting Dubas' involvement on that trade ever come out?

    ___

    noticed your later posts acknowledge similar. Took me awhile to draft this being interupted.
    Last edited by bone; 07-05-2019 at 12:58 PM.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    The Lucic trade becomes easier if he's only got 2 years left on his contract. Before then the Oilers will have to retain salary. Half, I think.
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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    PS. The Horton/Clarkson trade was two GMs ago. Has anything officially documenting Dubas' involvement on that trade ever come out?
    I wasn't crediting Dubas with that, I was just saying that if contracts like those can be shed, Lucic's can as well. Like I said, the cost would be exorbitant but you can't convince me it's not possible. That contact is atrocious. And Chia ****ed up this team royally. I think we can all agree on that.
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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
    I wasn't crediting Dubas with that, I was just saying that if contracts like those can be shed, Lucic's can as well. Like I said, the cost would be exorbitant but you can't convince me it's not possible. That contact is atrocious. And Chia ****ed up this team royally. I think we can all agree on that.
    100%, Chia sunk this team and it will take creativity to dig us out quickly. Don't think Holland has that creativity, so hopefully his longer term plan pans out. I still think his plan is essentially to just try and survive until the expansion draft and make a strike at that point.
    Last edited by bone; 07-05-2019 at 01:20 PM.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    The Lucic trade becomes easier if he's only got 2 years left on his contract. Before then the Oilers will have to retain salary. Half, I think.
    Probably even then they would need to eat half, but it may at least be possible at that point. I certainly don't wish a major injury on Lucic, but the quickest and least painful way out of this contract is if he just decides to not play anymore. I just don't see it likely as he missed just his first few games from injury as an Oiler late this year and had only missed 10 games in the previous 8 seasons. He's very durable so I imagine he'll continue playing through the contract. He is still only 30 years old.

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    Re: 2018-19 Oilers Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
    I didn't ignore it. I said that you can't tell me they can move Zaitsev and Marleau but we can't move Sekera and/or Russell. Do you honestly disagree with that? Instead of looking at those options, you are bringing up Lucic which is an entirely different argument.

    I mostly agree on Lucic. I think it can be done, but the cost would be extraordinary and probably not worth it.

    Kinger said Manning for Reimer. That would have been a brilliant move. But Holland probably can't even bring himself to consider something like that.
    Could have actually been Manning for Reimer at 50%. Saves Florida $1,000,000 give or take on what they actually did and you get Reimer for 2 years at $1,700,000.

    So instead of burying Manning for $2,000,000 and signing Mike freaking Smith and his 37 year old ass, you get a 31 year old goalie for half his price.

    There, I just created almost $4,000,000 in cap space, improved the goaltending, and it's a trade we can say with absolute authority that Florida would have done it.

    Take that $4,000,000, add Chiasson's 2.2 because he's not coming back and suddenly you have $6,200,000 to add a winger who is way more effective than Chiasson.

    Does Nyquist sign in Edmonton for the came money he signed for in CBus? How much more serious of an offer can you put in for Zuccarello? Maybe you could have tried to seriously sign a big fish like Matt Duchene because you still have some cap space kicking around in this scenario and now instead of demoting Manning you can demote Brodziak and save another $1,000,000 on the cap.

    There were ways to make this team better. Holland ignored them all by being incredibly uncreative and it just looks awfully lazy. Zero trades. Signs one of the worst goalies in the NHL last year who is 37 years old.

    I really don't want to be overly negative, but when Joakim Nygard is your best signing of the summer you dropped the ball.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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