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Thread: 2018 Offseason

  1. #391
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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorth View Post
    I honestly do think they did right by him, and I know that he has expressed that too.

    Guys kept around by a club are kept for a reason. Guys not seeing the field, are generally not seeing the field for a reason too. That can be health (Mitchell was hurt in training camp last year and took a long time to get right). That can also be chemistry and scheme - they want certain guys in certain roles, and not just the 4-5 most physically talented guys out at any time. That can be management of team culture, playing your leaders and respecting that starters don't lose their jobs to injury most times.

    Mitchell didn't stick on the PR in 15. He had never even seen CW when he came back in 16, due to TC being at Spruce Grove and the start in Ft Mac. 16 was his waiting game, trying to crack a post-Grey Cup roster with a new coaching staff that wasn't familiar with him. Learn the waggle, learn the terminology, learn the route tree. Learn to be a pro.

    In 17, we didn't pick up Stafford late in the year, we picked him up when Wpg cut him the day after our pre-season game in Wpg. He kept his head down, did the right things, was a good teammate and had a heck of a road as a person, connecting with his birth father and distancing himself from his reputation that was associating him with his cousin, Duron. Playing time isn't awarded based just on stats. Production plays into it, but a guy could be assignment perfect and match up against a shutdown corner, have double coverage rolled or just not be a big part of the attack that week. 2017 stats don't dictate the 2018 pecking order, but the work they've put in, the study they've done and the preparation that they display when they get to camp sure does impact that. The coaches saw what they saw in Stafford's prep (most of last off-season in Edm), and they saw a role that they felt Hazelton was better suited to (I don't get that myself either). They did NOT hold back Mitchell out of some grudge, and they went with the combination that they thought would serve them the best for the gamelan each week.

    B-Mitch lands an NFL shot after persevering and paying his dues, while being coached up and working to take advantage of his chance when it came. I absolutely assure you he is quite happy with how everything shook out and based on where it's led right now, who could blame him.
    When the Eskimos had an open practice at CW before the western final in 2015 wasn't Mitchell at that? I thought he was and that is where I first saw him and he looked quite impressive.

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Esks1975 View Post
    When the Eskimos had an open practice at CW before the western final in 2015 wasn't Mitchell at that? I thought he was and that is where I first saw him and he looked quite impressive.
    According to Esks.com Transactions for 2015, Mitchell was originally signed during the Hervey/Jones regime on April 29th, and released after training camp on June 15th. It is possible that you remember correct and he was a PR add when rosters were expanded, but I can't find a record of that anywhere.

    UPDATE - yeah, I just checked web.archive.org and Mitchell is not listed on the roster, IR, or PR for the Esks in the week leading up to the West Final in 2015. So either a big blip, or he was not there.
    Last edited by Hugoagogo; 01-08-2019 at 11:20 PM.
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

  3. #393
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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by writfiler View Post
    IIRC, Mitchell was injured late in TC & spent the first several games on IR. You canít play & produce if youíre injured....
    You are right, he wasn't available for a few games but he was in the game for week 4 so he didn't miss that many and I have no clue when he would have been ready to go, probably earlier than that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorth View Post
    I honestly do think they did right by him, and I know that he has expressed that too.

    Guys kept around by a club are kept for a reason. Guys not seeing the field, are generally not seeing the field for a reason too. That can be health (Mitchell was hurt in training camp last year and took a long time to get right). That can also be chemistry and scheme - they want certain guys in certain roles, and not just the 4-5 most physically talented guys out at any time. That can be management of team culture, playing your leaders and respecting that starters don't lose their jobs to injury most times.

    Mitchell didn't stick on the PR in 15. He had never even seen CW when he came back in 16, due to TC being at Spruce Grove and the start in Ft Mac. 16 was his waiting game, trying to crack a post-Grey Cup roster with a new coaching staff that wasn't familiar with him. Learn the waggle, learn the terminology, learn the route tree. Learn to be a pro.

    In 17, we didn't pick up Stafford late in the year, we picked him up when Wpg cut him the day after our pre-season game in Wpg. He kept his head down, did the right things, was a good teammate and had a heck of a road as a person, connecting with his birth father and distancing himself from his reputation that was associating him with his cousin, Duron. Playing time isn't awarded based just on stats. Production plays into it, but a guy could be assignment perfect and match up against a shutdown corner, have double coverage rolled or just not be a big part of the attack that week. 2017 stats don't dictate the 2018 pecking order, but the work they've put in, the study they've done and the preparation that they display when they get to camp sure does impact that. The coaches saw what they saw in Stafford's prep (most of last off-season in Edm), and they saw a role that they felt Hazelton was better suited to (I don't get that myself either). They did NOT hold back Mitchell out of some grudge, and they went with the combination that they thought would serve them the best for the gamelan each week.

    B-Mitch lands an NFL shot after persevering and paying his dues, while being coached up and working to take advantage of his chance when it came. I absolutely assure you he is quite happy with how everything shook out and based on where it's led right now, who could blame him.
    He got nicked up early in camp, then got in briefly in week 4. Then didn't see much action until week 10. In week 10, he lead the team with 7 catches, 128 yards and a TD which they won. Then he was SAT for the next 2 games in favor of Hazelton while the Esks offense sputtered and Hazelton played like crap and had the dropsies, both games they lost. The only reason he got in for week 13 was because Walker got hurt the previous game in Calgary and he ended up second on the team in receiving that game. So do you think that sat well with him? I would be pissed if I was him.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    MY philosophy has always been 3 years. Year 1 is still the previous GMs team, year 2 you are looking at a decent split but by year 3 in the CFL you will have had to sign almost everyone on your roster. IMO this timeline may be even a little aggressive in this situation based on how late in the year Brock was signed. Year 3, for him, brings his own football ops team so there is no debating who's team the 2019 Eskimos are. The trend may very well be down but it also may be up, lets see how 2019 plays out.

    Lets remember that after a 14-4 season in 2015, Herveys team went 10-8 the next year and I consider him to be one of the best GMs in the league so I think the least we can do is give Brock 2019.
    What you said has some merit too it but here is the thing. When you inherit a good team like Brock did. Good enough to be 12-6 and a play or 2 from the cup game without you doing really anything to the roster, the foundation for you should be in place already. I get every new GM will want to make it "his team" and tweak it but you shouldn't make it worse. He made it worse. No disrespect intended to anyone but if you think the move he made this past offseason made the team better, you are either lying to yourself or delusional. They were not a good team. They won some games strictly because Reilly is hands down the best QB in the league. Now you factor in the fact that the Esks lost several critical players to the NFL and there is the whole Reilly thing. Maybe some of you think I am Mr. Negative but big name players especially QB's DON'T move in the CFL a hell of a lot. The good ones know they will make their money where ever they go so they often opt to stay in familiar surroundings vs going to the unknown of a new team. Most players in a contract year will never 100% commit to their team, they take about wanting to weight options, best fit, blah, blah, blah but they usually hint their preference is to stay. Reilly is doing nothing of that. That is a HUGE red flag. If the Esks lose Reilly, I do not know how anyone can say that is not a massive fail on the organization and the GM.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    According to Esks.com Transactions for 2015, Mitchell was originally signed during the Hervey/Jones regime on April 29th, and released after training camp on June 15th. It is possible that you remember correct and he was a PR add when rosters were expanded, but I can't find a record of that anywhere.

    UPDATE - yeah, I just checked web.archive.org and Mitchell is not listed on the roster, IR, or PR for the Esks in the week leading up to the West Final in 2015. So either a big blip, or he was not there.
    I can’t remember if he was on the PR in late 2015 - didn’t think so, but maybe I’m wrong (gasp!).
    In my mind, he REALLY started with the Esks in TC of 2016.

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    What you said has some merit too it but here is the thing. When you inherit a good team like Brock did. Good enough to be 12-6 and a play or 2 from the cup game without you doing really anything to the roster, the foundation for you should be in place already. I get every new GM will want to make it "his team" and tweak it but you shouldn't make it worse. He made it worse. No disrespect intended to anyone but if you think the move he made this past offseason made the team better, you are either lying to yourself or delusional. They were not a good team. They won some games strictly because Reilly is hands down the best QB in the league. Now you factor in the fact that the Esks lost several critical players to the NFL and there is the whole Reilly thing. Maybe some of you think I am Mr. Negative but big name players especially QB's DON'T move in the CFL a hell of a lot. The good ones know they will make their money where ever they go so they often opt to stay in familiar surroundings vs going to the unknown of a new team. Most players in a contract year will never 100% commit to their team, they take about wanting to weight options, best fit, blah, blah, blah but they usually hint their preference is to stay. Reilly is doing nothing of that. That is a HUGE red flag. If the Esks lose Reilly, I do not know how anyone can say that is not a massive fail on the organization and the GM.
    But the season before Brock took over we were 10-8 so 12-6 in a season with as many injuries as we had that year is a check in the positive column in my opinion. I know somehow you are still going to credit that to Hervey but he wasn't around to navigate the cap and sign the players needed to get to 12-6. 2018 didn't go as plan and saw us drop 3 more games than we did the previous season but a team cannot win more games than they did the previous year all the time. If 2019 is a step back and we don't advance (outside of the odd situation that isn't under our control like Reilly signing in the NFL), I will be stepping into "fire Brock" boat but until then I am going to give Brock and his staff a fair shot to form the team the way they envision.
    Edmonton Eskimos, 2015 grey cup CHAMPS!!!!!

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    But the season before Brock took over we were 10-8 so 12-6 in a season with as many injuries as we had that year is a check in the positive column in my opinion. I know somehow you are still going to credit that to Hervey but he wasn't around to navigate the cap and sign the players needed to get to 12-6. 2018 didn't go as plan and saw us drop 3 more games than we did the previous season but a team cannot win more games than they did the previous year all the time. If 2019 is a step back and we don't advance (outside of the odd situation that isn't under our control like Reilly signing in the NFL), I will be stepping into "fire Brock" boat but until then I am going to give Brock and his staff a fair shot to form the team the way they envision.
    For this season, I am under the assumption that:

    Calgary - Mitchell will be back. He's had workouts for weeks now. Guys are already signing. I thought he might have signed by now if it was going to happen. My guess is he is looking for more than being a 3rd string guy which is probably all he will get. He's already said if he doesn't sign in the NFL, he's coming back to Calgary. So he will be back IMO and they will be good.
    Sask - Jones has been building this team. Despite Collaros being a band aid and the Canadian, they still were decent. I think they will be a good team.
    Winnipeg - They have a good overall team. Nichols isn't a high end starter but decent. They will be good.
    BC - Hervey is building a team. They already have a real good defense and with Claybrooks in the mix, it will be even better. I am not being negative but I just have this bad feeling Reilly is going there. Hervey will be aggressive. Reilly's best friend will be his back up. Closer to home. Organizationally - this isn't Brock hate - they just look a little more steady right now especially from the Pres position.

    So I am curious what you think a step back would be?
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

  8. #398
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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Well someone. Thinks highly enough of Stafford to make him a highlight reel! :/

    https://youtu.be/hu4g0okBTc8

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by cmbuk View Post
    Well someone. Thinks highly enough of Stafford to make him a highlight reel! :/

    https://youtu.be/hu4g0okBTc8
    Maybe his mom?
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

  10. #400

    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    What you said has some merit too it but here is the thing. When you inherit a good team like Brock did. Good enough to be 12-6 and a play or 2 from the cup game without you doing really anything to the roster, the foundation for you should be in place already. I get every new GM will want to make it "his team" and tweak it but you shouldn't make it worse. He made it worse. No disrespect intended to anyone but if you think the move he made this past offseason made the team better, you are either lying to yourself or delusional. They were not a good team. They won some games strictly because Reilly is hands down the best QB in the league. Now you factor in the fact that the Esks lost several critical players to the NFL and there is the whole Reilly thing. Maybe some of you think I am Mr. Negative but big name players especially QB's DON'T move in the CFL a hell of a lot. The good ones know they will make their money where ever they go so they often opt to stay in familiar surroundings vs going to the unknown of a new team. Most players in a contract year will never 100% commit to their team, they take about wanting to weight options, best fit, blah, blah, blah but they usually hint their preference is to stay. Reilly is doing nothing of that. That is a HUGE red flag. If the Esks lose Reilly, I do not know how anyone can say that is not a massive fail on the organization and the GM.
    It was because of the 12 and 6 record the previous year that Sunderlands philosophy last off season was to make as few changes as were necessary in an effort to keep the gang together to go on a run to the cup at home, which I agreed with, but due to a bunch of different factors, it just didnít work out.

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    nm
    Last edited by Hugoagogo; 01-09-2019 at 10:36 AM.
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    For this season, I am under the assumption that:

    Calgary - Mitchell will be back. He's had workouts for weeks now. Guys are already signing. I thought he might have signed by now if it was going to happen. My guess is he is looking for more than being a 3rd string guy which is probably all he will get. He's already said if he doesn't sign in the NFL, he's coming back to Calgary. So he will be back IMO and they will be good.
    Sask - Jones has been building this team. Despite Collaros being a band aid and the Canadian, they still were decent. I think they will be a good team.
    Winnipeg - They have a good overall team. Nichols isn't a high end starter but decent. They will be good.
    BC - Hervey is building a team. They already have a real good defense and with Claybrooks in the mix, it will be even better. I am not being negative but I just have this bad feeling Reilly is going there. Hervey will be aggressive. Reilly's best friend will be his back up. Closer to home. Organizationally - this isn't Brock hate - they just look a little more steady right now especially from the Pres position.

    So I am curious what you think a step back would be?
    tough to say at this point to be honest as I need to see the way the rosters shake out. A couple of things that could change my opinion of what a step back would look like:

    • Reilly leaving for the NFL
    • Bo Levi leaving for the NFL
    • Sask getting a decent QB


    If Calgary were to lose Bo my expectations for the Eskimos record would go up (at least 10-8 if not 11-7). If Reilly goes to the NFL my bar for our season would lower considerably and if Sask gets a decent QB a 9-9 season wouldn't be a step back, at least in my opinion.
    Edmonton Eskimos, 2015 grey cup CHAMPS!!!!!

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    tough to say at this point to be honest as I need to see the way the rosters shake out. A couple of things that could change my opinion of what a step back would look like:

    • Reilly leaving for the NFL
    • Bo Levi leaving for the NFL
    • Sask getting a decent QB


    If Calgary were to lose Bo my expectations for the Eskimos record would go up (at least 10-8 if not 11-7). If Reilly goes to the NFL my bar for our season would lower considerably and if Sask gets a decent QB a 9-9 season wouldn't be a step back, at least in my opinion.
    First of all. At 33, Reilly isn't going to the NFL. Let's get real here.

    Second the Riders were 12-6 with 2 pretty mediocre QB's at the helm. So it's pretty apparent they can be decent with mediocre QB's.

    No wonder we never agree on anything. Your expectations of this team are way less than mine. Rather than the Esks get better, you hope Calgary gets worse so they can win a game or 2 more against them and are OK with the team being .500 which given how good the other west teams are, probably means the Esks would be near the bottom again.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    First of all. At 33, Reilly isn't going to the NFL. Let's get real here.

    Second the Riders were 12-6 with 2 pretty mediocre QB's at the helm. So it's pretty apparent they can be decent with mediocre QB's.

    No wonder we never agree on anything. Your expectations of this team are way less than mine. Rather than the Esks get better, you hope Calgary gets worse so they can win a game or 2 more against them and are OK with the team being .500 which given how good the other west teams are, probably means the Esks would be near the bottom again.
    Wow Q, you sure like to twist my words, never once did I say that I thought 2018 was good enough. All I'm saying is that there are to many variables to say what I would consider a successful year at this point. If you wanna judge the GM and NEW scouting staff BEFORE seeing what they produce, fill your boots but I'm going to give them time to prove themselves.

    Do you ever notice that you argue with EVERYONE other than Diesel?
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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    If Calgary were to lose Bo my expectations for the Eskimos record would go up (at least 10-8 if not 11-7). If Reilly goes to the NFL my bar for our season would lower considerably and if Sask gets a decent QB a 9-9 season wouldn't be a step back, at least in my opinion.
    Calgary would certainly struggle if they couldn't find a suitable replacement for Bo. I think they would miss the playoffs. Even if he stays, there are only so many good QB's to go around. After the big guns get signed, it will be interesting to see what all the other teams do. Despite an off year last season, I could really see someone making a deal for Franklin in TO and making him a starter if the Argos are ready to move on from him. BC most definitely will lose Jennings in my opinion. BC needs a plan B if Reilly is plan A.
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    Calgary would certainly struggle if they couldn't find a suitable replacement for Bo. I think they would miss the playoffs. Even if he stays, there are only so many good QB's to go around. After the big guns get signed, it will be interesting to see what all the other teams do. Despite an off year last season, I could really see someone making a deal for Franklin in TO and making him a starter if the Argos are ready to move on from him. BC most definitely will lose Jennings in my opinion. BC needs a plan B if Reilly is plan A.

    I’d take franklin .. without a doubt!

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by cmbuk View Post
    I’d take franklin .. without a doubt!
    Agreed. I would hope he is also an option beyond Reilly for the Esks.
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    Agreed. I would hope he is also an option beyond Reilly for the Esks.
    Any idea what the $$ difference is between Franklins contract and Reilly's?
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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    Any idea what the $$ difference is between Franklins contract and Reilly's?
    You gotta think 300k plus on their current money!

    Don’t forget Ray was on over 500k last year...

    I’d expect franklin to be no higher than Jennings got in 18

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    Agreed. I would hope he is also an option beyond Reilly for the Esks.
    I'd love to see Franklin back. My fear is the Argos would really put the screws to us for draft choices and a Cdn starter after getting Franklin in a fire sale. Something didn't click between him and Trestman and Treastman went to a QB that the Bombers had released.

    Last year Bethel - Thompson threw 9 TD's to 10 ints and a rating of 83. With us Franklin went 12 to 1 on TD's vs ints and QB ratings of 97, 158 & 125. With Toronto he went 8 & 9 TD's vs int with a QB rating of 82. Basically nothing to choose between them , so the problem was likely the team and schemes. I imagine the kid would love to return to a classy organization and a mentor like Maas.

    You would think Franklin wants to be with a team where he has an honest shot at starter , so if Reilly stays we might not be that attractive . Remembering the kind of ball he constantly threw here he would be my first choice if Mike moves elsewhere.

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by turftoe27 View Post
    I'd love to see Franklin back. My fear is the Argos would really put the screws to us for draft choices and a Cdn starter after getting Franklin in a fire sale. Something didn't click between him and Trestman and Treastman went to a QB that the Bombers had released.

    Last year Bethel - Thompson threw 9 TD's to 10 ints and a rating of 83. With us Franklin went 12 to 1 on TD's vs ints and QB ratings of 97, 158 & 125. With Toronto he went 8 & 9 TD's vs int with a QB rating of 82. Basically nothing to choose between them , so the problem was likely the team and schemes. I imagine the kid would love to return to a classy organization and a mentor like Maas.

    You would think Franklin wants to be with a team where he has an honest shot at starter , so if Reilly stays we might not be that attractive . Remembering the kind of ball he constantly threw here he would be my first choice if Mike moves elsewhere.
    I suspect Tommy Condell & Corey Chamblin will run an offense better suited to Franklin's ability to move the pocket. Unless the Argos sign a big gun, I'd say Franklin will easily be #1 - especially ahead of Bethel-Thompson.
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    According to Esks.com Transactions for 2015, Mitchell was originally signed during the Hervey/Jones regime on April 29th, and released after training camp on June 15th. It is possible that you remember correct and he was a PR add when rosters were expanded, but I can't find a record of that anywhere.

    UPDATE - yeah, I just checked web.archive.org and Mitchell is not listed on the roster, IR, or PR for the Esks in the week leading up to the West Final in 2015. So either a big blip, or he was not there.
    I remember talking to Bryant at camp in 2016. When he left after being cut in 2015, he'd only seen Spruce Grove and the road game in Vancouver was at UBC (56 Parkies and I got to stand at the fence behind the Esks bench there). He had no idea, at that point, that the CFL wasn't all that way, and when he saw CW, he got an idea that this was more than he had understood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    You are right, he wasn't available for a few games but he was in the game for week 4 so he didn't miss that many and I have no clue when he would have been ready to go, probably earlier than that.

    - - - Updated - - -



    He got nicked up early in camp, then got in briefly in week 4. Then didn't see much action until week 10. In week 10, he lead the team with 7 catches, 128 yards and a TD which they won. Then he was SAT for the next 2 games in favor of Hazelton while the Esks offense sputtered and Hazelton played like crap and had the dropsies, both games they lost. The only reason he got in for week 13 was because Walker got hurt the previous game in Calgary and he ended up second on the team in receiving that game. So do you think that sat well with him? I would be pissed if I was him.
    No competitor wants to sit, but he bought into a plan, continued to prepare and was largely productive when called upon. Was he frustrated at times? Sure. Did he remain happy to be in Edmonton and be an Edmonton Eskimo? Yes.

    If you went through what he has and have arrived where he has currently, and are holding a grudge against your employer, coaches or teammates, I'd say you're not cut out for team sports and aren't going to last long in a locker room environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    Calgary would certainly struggle if they couldn't find a suitable replacement for Bo. I think they would miss the playoffs. Even if he stays, there are only so many good QB's to go around. After the big guns get signed, it will be interesting to see what all the other teams do. Despite an off year last season, I could really see someone making a deal for Franklin in TO and making him a starter if the Argos are ready to move on from him. BC most definitely will lose Jennings in my opinion. BC needs a plan B if Reilly is plan A.
    If Bo goes... and there are some good articles out there that make the case that he's weighing his options, as many of the best landing spots are still undergoing coaching uncertainty or questions about the pecking order at QB... it is going to be tougher for Calgary to bring back some of their top-end receiving talent - very similar to the Esks' situation. Add to that, a huge departure in Singleton (talent and ratio), the 4th nfl departure (same as the Esks) and the impending free agency of many of their top defensive players, whose coach has just departed for BC. There could definitely be some turbulent times for them, the same as every other team. With the key difference that Bo is committed to Calgary if he remains in the CFL (and having the same agent as Mike, that could change with the new CBA possibly, or if he tries the NFL and they have to move forward with a plan B), the Stamps are facing every bit the uncertainty that the Esks are with regard to free agency.

    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    Any idea what the $$ difference is between Franklins contract and Reilly's?
    Franklin's is structured as a highly incentive-driven contract, to pay him as a starter when he is a starter, but recognizing that he was expected to be behind Ricky. I believe it tops out in the $300,000 range if he's starting and hitting escalators and bonuses, whereas Reilly's was rumoured to be around $550,000, presumably with more guaranteed through signing bonuses, up-front money and base salary.

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    I'm not much of a twitter follower but just somehow received one regarding Da'Quan Bowers . We were kinda surprised by his retirement after just signing a new contract here and certainly felt his loss on the Dline in 2018. As a def. assistant coach with the Clemson Tigers, congrats to him and the Tigers for winning the national championship.

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by cmbuk View Post
    You gotta think 300k plus on their current money!

    Don’t forget Ray was on over 500k last year...

    I’d expect franklin to be no higher than Jennings got in 18
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorth View Post

    Franklin's is structured as a highly incentive-driven contract, to pay him as a starter when he is a starter, but recognizing that he was expected to be behind Ricky. I believe it tops out in the $300,000 range if he's starting and hitting escalators and bonuses, whereas Reilly's was rumoured to be around $550,000, presumably with more guaranteed through signing bonuses, up-front money and base salary.
    Basically the difference is the price of 2 well paid import DB's? I don't want Reilly to leave, but you can bet Brock is looking at it from this point of view too..
    The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    Wow Q, you sure like to twist my words, never once did I say that I thought 2018 was good enough. All I'm saying is that there are to many variables to say what I would consider a successful year at this point. If you wanna judge the GM and NEW scouting staff BEFORE seeing what they produce, fill your boots but I'm going to give them time to prove themselves.

    Do you ever notice that you argue with EVERYONE other than Diesel?
    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    Wow Q, you sure like to twist my words, never once did I say that I thought 2018 was good enough. All I'm saying is that there are to many variables to say what I would consider a successful year at this point. If you wanna judge the GM and NEW scouting staff BEFORE seeing what they produce, fill your boots but I'm going to give them time to prove themselves.

    Do you ever notice that you argue with EVERYONE other than Diesel?
    Actually I mostly argue with a select few people in here who seem too look at this team with rose colored glasses. But you are right on one thing, Diesel and I do agree on a lot. WHY? Because we sat in the stadium game after game, year after year in all conditions and slowly watched this team degrade. We don't look at the team or the management with Green and Gold colored glasses crossing our fingers and hoping they can figure it out or get lucky. Maybe I shouldn't speak for Diesel but I am fairly sure he thinks similarly. I call the team as it is. I call the moves or lack there of as they are. I live in reality, not hope land. Brock took over the team, a mostly ready made team where all he had to do was manage the cap and some injuries. That's it. He had a whole season to basically sit back and learn the job. Most new GM's don't get to do that. He did. I was never happy with the firing but I said before I completely passed judgement on him I wanted to see what he could do in his first REAL offseason as a GM. Auto piloting a ready made team and resigning a couple of proven star players in Walker and Grymes when they were cut from the NFL in the 2017 isn't that hard to do. The real work was going to come at the end of the 2017 season in the offseason where he was making trades, releasing guys, recruiting and signing free agents. That is where is we would see what he was made of as a GM. I am sorry if me telling the truth offends you but he FAILED. The team got worse. That's a fact, not an opinion, a fact. Most of his moves didn't work out.

    Figureao, their all star left tackle left wasn't resigned. Doesn't matter the circumstances, he was gone. So Brock needed to replace him. He didn't. That's a fact. Draheim wasn't even close to as good, Kelly couldn't do the job and the Esks played most of the year with O'Donnell A GUARD at tackle. All facts.

    Kelly was resigned. Kelly is not a quality American tackle. That's a fact. If you are going to play an American at tackle, he has to be good. Kelly struggles at pass blocking. That's a fact. It's been discussed in here by some people that I "argue" with that his footwork and technique isn't great at times. That's a problem. So the Esks Oline which WAS A PROBLEM for a good chunk of the season got WORSE this year with Brock's signings. All facts.

    The Esks pass rush needed an upgrade last season. So he let a bunch of guys go and traded Willis. Willis was getting older, didn't have a good year so a decision was to be made. He made it and traded him. Willis had 11 sacks this year that would have lead the team. He made the wrong call on him. He should have waited, one more year. That's a fact. So he traded him and the guy they got, is GONE now. SO not only did they Esks pull the trigger on Willis probably 1 year too soon, they have nothing for him now.

    Bazzie his big free agent signing while not having a bad year, didn't live up to the contract. That's a fact. He's supposedly getting paid as a top tier D end and he's not. Is he a decent player? Yes, is he a great player? NO. You don't pay guys big money in the CFL to be decent. He was brought in to sack the QB and the guy we replaced had a better year.

    The Esks interior line his first year was DOMINATE. They have Sewel, Cummins, Bowers who dominated not only in sacks but stopping the run. Bowers retired unexpectedly and they lost Cummins to free agency but he had legal problems. Brock brought in Cerensa who was pretty good BUT the interior of the Esks line was no where near as good. There were many games where the Esks dline got dominated. That's a fact.

    The Esks lost a star in Ladler at linebacker to the NFL. The guy the team had on the roster to replace him Edwards, wasn't close. That's a fact.

    There are some of the moves the GM made. But everyone of those moves had a huge impact on the team and the record speaks for itself. So if me speaking truths offends you, OH well. If you have faith in the guy, great, you can think whatever you want. But Brock is going into his 3rd year as GM and so far, his team hasn't gotten better or even stayed the same, it's gotten worse. My statement isn't based on my opinion, it's based on what is in front of my face. Their record and their play this season speaks for itself. It doesn't mean he can't improve them but I gave him the benefit of the doubt this past offseason and it didn't work out.

    By the way, if you notice, a ton of the things that Diesel and I say in here, tends to happen that way. All the issues I mentioned in this post, we both raised those concerns at the start of this past season and they all came to be.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    Basically the difference is the price of 2 well paid import DB's? I don't want Reilly to leave, but you can bet Brock is looking at it from this point of view too..
    Certainly if we don't manage to sign Reilly, his replacement will be much cheaper. I guess that's the only silver lining in that scenario.
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    Actually I mostly argue with a select few people in here who seem too look at this team with rose colored glasses. But you are right on one thing, Diesel and I do agree on a lot. WHY? Because we sat in the stadium game after game, year after year in all conditions and slowly watched this team degrade. We don't look at the team or the management with Green and Gold colored glasses crossing our fingers and hoping they can figure it out or get lucky. Maybe I shouldn't speak for Diesel but I am fairly sure he thinks similarly. I call the team as it is. I call the moves or lack there of as they are. I live in reality, not hope land. Brock took over the team, a mostly ready made team where all he had to do was manage the cap and some injuries. That's it. He had a whole season to basically sit back and learn the job. Most new GM's don't get to do that. He did. I was never happy with the firing but I said before I completely passed judgement on him I wanted to see what he could do in his first REAL offseason as a GM. Auto piloting a ready made team and resigning a couple of proven star players in Walker and Grymes when they were cut from the NFL in the 2017 isn't that hard to do. The real work was going to come at the end of the 2017 season in the offseason where he was making trades, releasing guys, recruiting and signing free agents. That is where is we would see what he was made of as a GM. I am sorry if me telling the truth offends you but he FAILED. The team got worse. That's a fact, not an opinion, a fact. Most of his moves didn't work out.

    Figureao, their all star left tackle left wasn't resigned. Doesn't matter the circumstances, he was gone. So Brock needed to replace him. He didn't. That's a fact. Draheim wasn't even close to as good, Kelly couldn't do the job and the Esks played most of the year with O'Donnell A GUARD at tackle. All facts.

    Kelly was resigned. Kelly is not a quality American tackle. That's a fact. If you are going to play an American at tackle, he has to be good. Kelly struggles at pass blocking. That's a fact. It's been discussed in here by some people that I "argue" with that his footwork and technique isn't great at times. That's a problem. So the Esks Oline which WAS A PROBLEM for a good chunk of the season got WORSE this year with Brock's signings. All facts.

    The Esks pass rush needed an upgrade last season. So he let a bunch of guys go and traded Willis. Willis was getting older, didn't have a good year so a decision was to be made. He made it and traded him. Willis had 11 sacks this year that would have lead the team. He made the wrong call on him. He should have waited, one more year. That's a fact. So he traded him and the guy they got, is GONE now. SO not only did they Esks pull the trigger on Willis probably 1 year too soon, they have nothing for him now.

    Bazzie his big free agent signing while not having a bad year, didn't live up to the contract. That's a fact. He's supposedly getting paid as a top tier D end and he's not. Is he a decent player? Yes, is he a great player? NO. You don't pay guys big money in the CFL to be decent. He was brought in to sack the QB and the guy we replaced had a better year.

    The Esks interior line his first year was DOMINATE. They have Sewel, Cummins, Bowers who dominated not only in sacks but stopping the run. Bowers retired unexpectedly and they lost Cummins to free agency but he had legal problems. Brock brought in Cerensa who was pretty good BUT the interior of the Esks line was no where near as good. There were many games where the Esks dline got dominated. That's a fact.

    The Esks lost a star in Ladler at linebacker to the NFL. The guy the team had on the roster to replace him Edwards, wasn't close. That's a fact.

    There are some of the moves the GM made. But everyone of those moves had a huge impact on the team and the record speaks for itself. So if me speaking truths offends you, OH well. If you have faith in the guy, great, you can think whatever you want. But Brock is going into his 3rd year as GM and so far, his team hasn't gotten better or even stayed the same, it's gotten worse. My statement isn't based on my opinion, it's based on what is in front of my face. Their record and their play this season speaks for itself. It doesn't mean he can't improve them but I gave him the benefit of the doubt this past offseason and it didn't work out.

    By the way, if you notice, a ton of the things that Diesel and I say in here, tends to happen that way. All the issues I mentioned in this post, we both raised those concerns at the start of this past season and they all came to be.

    Sorry Q
    U didn’t mention 1 time your a 25 year season ticket holder in this post..

    Your losing your touch.. please amend !!!


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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    Actually I mostly argue with a select few people in here who seem too look at this team with rose colored glasses. But you are right on one thing, Diesel and I do agree on a lot. WHY? Because we sat in the stadium game after game, year after year in all conditions and slowly watched this team degrade. We don't look at the team or the management with Green and Gold colored glasses crossing our fingers and hoping they can figure it out or get lucky. Maybe I shouldn't speak for Diesel but I am fairly sure he thinks similarly. I call the team as it is. I call the moves or lack there of as they are. I live in reality, not hope land. Brock took over the team, a mostly ready made team where all he had to do was manage the cap and some injuries. That's it. He had a whole season to basically sit back and learn the job. Most new GM's don't get to do that. He did. I was never happy with the firing but I said before I completely passed judgement on him I wanted to see what he could do in his first REAL offseason as a GM. Auto piloting a ready made team and resigning a couple of proven star players in Walker and Grymes when they were cut from the NFL in the 2017 isn't that hard to do. The real work was going to come at the end of the 2017 season in the offseason where he was making trades, releasing guys, recruiting and signing free agents. That is where is we would see what he was made of as a GM. I am sorry if me telling the truth offends you but he FAILED. The team got worse. That's a fact, not an opinion, a fact. Most of his moves didn't work out.

    Figureao, their all star left tackle left wasn't resigned. Doesn't matter the circumstances, he was gone. So Brock needed to replace him. He didn't. That's a fact. Draheim wasn't even close to as good, Kelly couldn't do the job and the Esks played most of the year with O'Donnell A GUARD at tackle. All facts.

    Kelly was resigned. Kelly is not a quality American tackle. That's a fact. If you are going to play an American at tackle, he has to be good. Kelly struggles at pass blocking. That's a fact. It's been discussed in here by some people that I "argue" with that his footwork and technique isn't great at times. That's a problem. So the Esks Oline which WAS A PROBLEM for a good chunk of the season got WORSE this year with Brock's signings. All facts.

    The Esks pass rush needed an upgrade last season. So he let a bunch of guys go and traded Willis. Willis was getting older, didn't have a good year so a decision was to be made. He made it and traded him. Willis had 11 sacks this year that would have lead the team. He made the wrong call on him. He should have waited, one more year. That's a fact. So he traded him and the guy they got, is GONE now. SO not only did they Esks pull the trigger on Willis probably 1 year too soon, they have nothing for him now.

    Bazzie his big free agent signing while not having a bad year, didn't live up to the contract. That's a fact. He's supposedly getting paid as a top tier D end and he's not. Is he a decent player? Yes, is he a great player? NO. You don't pay guys big money in the CFL to be decent. He was brought in to sack the QB and the guy we replaced had a better year.

    The Esks interior line his first year was DOMINATE. They have Sewel, Cummins, Bowers who dominated not only in sacks but stopping the run. Bowers retired unexpectedly and they lost Cummins to free agency but he had legal problems. Brock brought in Cerensa who was pretty good BUT the interior of the Esks line was no where near as good. There were many games where the Esks dline got dominated. That's a fact.

    The Esks lost a star in Ladler at linebacker to the NFL. The guy the team had on the roster to replace him Edwards, wasn't close. That's a fact.

    There are some of the moves the GM made. But everyone of those moves had a huge impact on the team and the record speaks for itself. So if me speaking truths offends you, OH well. If you have faith in the guy, great, you can think whatever you want. But Brock is going into his 3rd year as GM and so far, his team hasn't gotten better or even stayed the same, it's gotten worse. My statement isn't based on my opinion, it's based on what is in front of my face. Their record and their play this season speaks for itself. It doesn't mean he can't improve them but I gave him the benefit of the doubt this past offseason and it didn't work out.

    By the way, if you notice, a ton of the things that Diesel and I say in here, tends to happen that way. All the issues I mentioned in this post, we both raised those concerns at the start of this past season and they all came to be.
    The one move that grates me a bit was trading our 6th & 37 th overall picks in last years draft to Hammy for their 10th & 20th overall spots. Hamilton took U. of Calgary G, Darius Cicaco with our pick. They signed him and he was their starting RG . Not too often does a CIS lineman start as a CFL rookie. The CFL draft is certainly a crap shoot but stealing a starting Olineman hurts. I imagine the trade was made to get quanity in the first two rounds because we had traded some other picks, but sometime quality might have been better.

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    Actually I mostly argue with a select few people in here who seem too look at this team with rose colored glasses. But you are right on one thing, Diesel and I do agree on a lot. WHY? Because we sat in the stadium game after game, year after year in all conditions and slowly watched this team degrade. We don't look at the team or the management with Green and Gold colored glasses crossing our fingers and hoping they can figure it out or get lucky. Maybe I shouldn't speak for Diesel but I am fairly sure he thinks similarly. I call the team as it is. I call the moves or lack there of as they are. I live in reality, not hope land. Brock took over the team, a mostly ready made team where all he had to do was manage the cap and some injuries. That's it. He had a whole season to basically sit back and learn the job. Most new GM's don't get to do that. He did. I was never happy with the firing but I said before I completely passed judgement on him I wanted to see what he could do in his first REAL offseason as a GM. Auto piloting a ready made team and resigning a couple of proven star players in Walker and Grymes when they were cut from the NFL in the 2017 isn't that hard to do. The real work was going to come at the end of the 2017 season in the offseason where he was making trades, releasing guys, recruiting and signing free agents. That is where is we would see what he was made of as a GM. I am sorry if me telling the truth offends you but he FAILED. The team got worse. That's a fact, not an opinion, a fact. Most of his moves didn't work out.

    Figureao, their all star left tackle left wasn't resigned. Doesn't matter the circumstances, he was gone. So Brock needed to replace him. He didn't. That's a fact. Draheim wasn't even close to as good, Kelly couldn't do the job and the Esks played most of the year with O'Donnell A GUARD at tackle. All facts.

    Kelly was resigned. Kelly is not a quality American tackle. That's a fact. If you are going to play an American at tackle, he has to be good. Kelly struggles at pass blocking. That's a fact. It's been discussed in here by some people that I "argue" with that his footwork and technique isn't great at times. That's a problem. So the Esks Oline which WAS A PROBLEM for a good chunk of the season got WORSE this year with Brock's signings. All facts.

    The Esks pass rush needed an upgrade last season. So he let a bunch of guys go and traded Willis. Willis was getting older, didn't have a good year so a decision was to be made. He made it and traded him. Willis had 11 sacks this year that would have lead the team. He made the wrong call on him. He should have waited, one more year. That's a fact. So he traded him and the guy they got, is GONE now. SO not only did they Esks pull the trigger on Willis probably 1 year too soon, they have nothing for him now.

    Bazzie his big free agent signing while not having a bad year, didn't live up to the contract. That's a fact. He's supposedly getting paid as a top tier D end and he's not. Is he a decent player? Yes, is he a great player? NO. You don't pay guys big money in the CFL to be decent. He was brought in to sack the QB and the guy we replaced had a better year.

    The Esks interior line his first year was DOMINATE. They have Sewel, Cummins, Bowers who dominated not only in sacks but stopping the run. Bowers retired unexpectedly and they lost Cummins to free agency but he had legal problems. Brock brought in Cerensa who was pretty good BUT the interior of the Esks line was no where near as good. There were many games where the Esks dline got dominated. That's a fact.

    The Esks lost a star in Ladler at linebacker to the NFL. The guy the team had on the roster to replace him Edwards, wasn't close. That's a fact.

    There are some of the moves the GM made. But everyone of those moves had a huge impact on the team and the record speaks for itself. So if me speaking truths offends you, OH well. If you have faith in the guy, great, you can think whatever you want. But Brock is going into his 3rd year as GM and so far, his team hasn't gotten better or even stayed the same, it's gotten worse. My statement isn't based on my opinion, it's based on what is in front of my face. Their record and their play this season speaks for itself. It doesn't mean he can't improve them but I gave him the benefit of the doubt this past offseason and it didn't work out.

    By the way, if you notice, a ton of the things that Diesel and I say in here, tends to happen that way. All the issues I mentioned in this post, we both raised those concerns at the start of this past season and they all came to be.
    Yes Q you are WAY smarter than the rest of us

    I won't lie, I do look at things through green and gold glasses but if you are ready to move on from a GM after only 1 off season, you are out of your mind. Please go back and re read my posts, I have said SEVERAL times that my eyes are clearly on 2019 where the judging starts. I don't think this is looking at things with rose colored glasses, more giving a GM a REALISTIC time line. I have also said several times that I believe (its my opinion) that 2018 was a result of poor coaching. Now we are heading into 2019 with the parts of the staff fixed that needed to be so I guess we'll see if I'm right or not.

    All the deals you say are FACT are not in fact that. You don't know figs reason for going to BC, you don't know how much Bazzie is getting paid compared to others with similar stats. you gloss over the Walker and Gymes signing like they were easy to fit under the cap in a year that we had record breaking injuries. Your shtick or as you call it being realistic would hold more water if you would respond to the positive moves made instead of ignoring them in order to advance your own agenda. Has Brock had some fails.... for sure he has, two of which are the Figs and Ladlers replacements but when you have the highest paid player in the league, you are going to have to make some sacrifices and will get outbid at other positions But he's also done some good things in navigating the cap in 2017, the Gable and Franklin trades and drafting Boateng to name just a few.

    I can pretty much tell you how your 2019 season posts are going to play out. The eskimos are going to sign Reilly as the highest paid player in the league, your response will be that it was a no brainer. Now you are going to sluff off the wins as a result of having the best player in the league and point the losses squarely at the feet of the GM only.
    Edmonton Eskimos, 2015 grey cup CHAMPS!!!!!

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    Re: 2018 Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    First of all. At 33, Reilly isn't going to the NFL. Let's get real here.

    Second the Riders were 12-6 with 2 pretty mediocre QB's at the helm. So it's pretty apparent they can be decent with mediocre QB's.

    No wonder we never agree on anything. Your expectations of this team are way less than mine. Rather than the Esks get better, you hope Calgary gets worse so they can win a game or 2 more against them and are OK with the team being .500 which given how good the other west teams are, probably means the Esks would be near the bottom again.
    Mike may go to the Jaguars depending on Milanovich and whomever they draft. Milanovich is a huge fan and says Mike could be a good bridge QB in Jacksonville he just has to convince the Head Coach and GM.
    Run the Ball up the gut around the horn it does not matter. We run we win what is so difficult to understand.

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