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Thread: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

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    Flame An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Maas had a better record.

    Plus they lost to Montreal, that should be a negative 10 points.
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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    A perfect day sample of why the division format needs to go.
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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nanookster View Post
    Maas had a better record.

    Plus they lost to Montreal, that should be a negative 10 points.
    Hamilton doesn’t rest Masoli, Tasker, Green and other top players if this game had mattered. And then they likely win and go 9-9 and swept the season series with us.

    I do agree though, it’s well overdue to switch to 1 division. There would’ve been WAY more at stake this week in a one division format. Instead you get a bunch of half empty stadiums to watch meaningless games.

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    As I posted in a parallel thread....

    Imagine Regina, or Calgary, finished 9 and 9 in circumstances identical to the Esks’ finish this year - and now their fans were bemoaning the unfairness of it all. What would people on this board be posting in response?

    Before the Season began each team know the rules, and what they had to accomplish. The time for questions was last winter, not now.

    In many other sports there is not exact parity between divisions or conferences.

    Personally I am ok with the current format.

    East vs West ... it’s historic, it’s the CFL.
    Last edited by Moon1; 11-04-2018 at 11:04 AM.

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon1 View Post
    As I posted in a parallel thread....

    Imagine Regina, or Calgary, finished 9 and 9 in circumstances identical to the Esks’ finish this year - and now their fans were bemoaning the unfairness of it all. What would people on this board be posting in response?

    Before the Season began each team know the rules, and what they had to accomplish. The time for questions was last winter, not now.

    In many other sports there is not exact parity between divisions or conferences.

    Personally I am ok with the current format.

    East vs West ... it’s historic, it’s the CFL.
    Except that B.C. might represent the east anyway.

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Until BC represents the east in the Grey Cup

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Quote Originally Posted by nafnikufesin View Post
    Until BC represents the east in the Grey Cup
    Bc looked toothless yesterday in wallys last ever game... I was shocked how easy Calgary won... Considering Calgary are on a 3 game dip to.

    Another reason why I hate players play for gm/hc etc etc they play for each other and in a lot of cases bloody money!

    Bc should beat Hamilton.. But bc's road record this is as crap as ours was. And bc's road record in Hamilton in general is pretty ****... So while I think bc should win... It's a close one

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    The only reason for the divisional split is rivalry playoff games. The possibility in a one table format would be three teams from each side of the country making the playoffs and every game being an east - west match up.

    For what it's worth, Esksfans anger is righteous over this issue. The Esks played a tougher schedule (BC and WPG instead of Ott and Tor) and had a better record. I don't see how the league doesn't go to a one table format when a tenth team comes on board.

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    The Esks lost to the Argos. Then they managed to beat them by a whopping 1 point.

    The Esks lost to the Ti-Cats twice.

    There is your playoffs right there.

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    IMO, teams that are 8-10 or 9-9 don't really have any right to complain about being eliminated from the playoffs.

    If you deserve to make it, show it by winning more than you lose. If you don't, well, that's not anyone else's fault.

    (Yes, I know that 9-9 teams have won the GC before. They got lucky, and shouldn't have complained if they hadn't made the playoffs.)
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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Quote Originally Posted by glenvb View Post
    If you deserve to make it, show it by winning more than you lose. If you don't, well, that's not anyone else's fault.
    The Esks had their destiny in their own hands at the end of the year. They went 2-4. One of those was yesterday's meaningless game. Agreed, their own fault. Not the league.

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    I would like to see the league go with Buonos suggestion for when a 10th team joins.

    One division, play each team home and away (balanced schedule)
    Seven teams make the playoffs
    Top team gets the only bye, giving teams a lot of incentive to finish first
    Remaining teams are seeded 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6, and 4 vs 5
    Top team then hosts the lowest remaining seed and the 2nd highest hosts the 3rd.

    It would have the possible quirk of a team getting 2 home games but I do think it would create a lot more drama down the stretch.

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Nice idea...although 6 team out of 9 making the playoffs is already a bit high; 7 out of 10 is even a higher proportion.
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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Quote Originally Posted by glenvb View Post
    Nice idea...although 6 team out of 9 making the playoffs is already a bit high; 7 out of 10 is even a higher proportion.
    True but it also adds an extra playoff game which you have to believe would be music to the ears of the owners and TSN.

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Quote Originally Posted by glenvb View Post
    Nice idea...although 6 team out of 9 making the playoffs is already a bit high; 7 out of 10 is even a higher proportion.
    Good lord, man. You sound like a statistician

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Quote Originally Posted by glenvb View Post
    IMO, teams that are 8-10 or 9-9 don't really have any right to complain about being eliminated from the playoffs.

    If you deserve to make it, show it by winning more than you lose. If you don't, well, that's not anyone else's fault.

    (Yes, I know that 9-9 teams have won the GC before. They got lucky, and shouldn't have complained if they hadn't made the playoffs.)
    I say get rid of the two divisions, have the teams play a balanced schedule. Top six make it out of that.

    The other point of this thread was fans of 8-10 teams or worse aren’t calling for their head coaches head.
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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nanookster View Post
    I say get rid of the two divisions, have the teams play a balanced schedule. Top six make it out of that.

    The other point of this thread was fans of 8-10 teams or worse aren’t calling for their head coaches head.
    Guess I like facts.
    Last year the Esks were 12 and 6 under Mass.
    This year 9 and 9.
    Maas completed his third year as Head Coach. The team finished fourth, third and fifth those years - no home playoff games and missing the playoffs this year.

    Last year Hamilton was 6 and 12. Initially they were 0 and 8 with Austin. Their current Coach, Jones, took over mid-season last year. Jones is in his first full year with Hamilton, and has made them competitive with a home playoff game.

    Jones and Cats on up escalator. Mass and Eskies on down escalator.
    I understand why their fans may not yet be “calling” for his “head”.

    Personally I had it with Maas as a head coach with that inexplicable meaningless FG near the end of the 2017 Western Final. Worse pro football call I can recall. Far as I’m concerned cost us the GC. And that hurts, cause Maas is one of my hero Esk QBs. He got us to the 2005 GC.
    Last edited by Moon1; 11-04-2018 at 09:24 PM.

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon1 View Post
    Guess I like facts.
    Last year the Esks were 12 and 6 under Mass.
    This year 9 and 9.
    Maas completed his third year as Head Coach. The team finished fourth, third and fifth those years - no home playoff games and missing the playoffs this year.

    Last year Hamilton was 6 and 12. Initially they were 0 and 8 with Austin. Their current Coach, Jones, took over mid-season last year. Jones is in his first full year with Hamilton, and has made them competitive with a home playoff game.

    Jones and Cats on up escalator. Mass and Eskies on down escalator.
    I understand why their fans may not yet be “calling” for his “head”.

    Personally I had it with Maas as a head coach with that inexplicable meaningless FG near the end of the 2017 Western Final. Worse pro football call I can recall. Far as I’m concerned cost us the GC. And that hurts, cause Maas is one of my hero Esk QBs. He got us to the 2005 GC.
    It is pretty frustrating reading most of what you write on here but saying that going for that field goal on third and four cost us the Grey Cup is really a stretch.

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    You can argue back and forth about that FG, just as you can with the FG near the end of the BC game. I think that makes it not the worst call, even if it might be rather controversial; opinions differ on it. (Unlike the gamble on 3rd and long in the playoff game vs Sask back in 2004, I think!)

    That also means that the call didn't lose the game for us. We were already trailing in both games, and our play after those FG's was, um, sub-optimal. There was a lot more to it than the FG calls.
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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    The only arguments I ever hear for keeping the current playoff format is tradition and needing to keep the East relevant to not lose market interest.

    But my argument is by giving the East teams charity home games, there is NO incentive for them to improve.

    Any comments out of Edmonton will just be called sour grapes but can you imagine the uproar if the Riders and Esks switched spots? If the leagues gold mine missed the playoffs in this scenario, you can bet they would look at change.

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Quote Originally Posted by T-BONE View Post
    The only arguments I ever hear for keeping the current playoff format is tradition and needing to keep the East relevant to not lose market interest.

    But my argument is by giving the East teams charity home games, there is NO incentive for them to improve.

    Any comments out of Edmonton will just be called sour grapes but can you imagine the uproar if the Riders and Esks switched spots? If the leagues gold mine missed the playoffs in this scenario, you can bet they would look at change.
    I agree with you. I too have heard the only argument of keeping 2 divisions is tradition. Tradition of what? You are a 9 team league, having 2 divisions is stupidity. Plus as you said, what is the incentive for the East teams really. Do you as a pro sports teams want to win? Well expect for Edmonton where "winning is not enough" if you are a pro team, you want to win all your games. But in the east all you have to do is be one of the top 2 teams. Doesn't matter what your record is, just don't be 3rd. That's it and you make the playoffs and even get to HOST a game. Its football and the playoffs are always 1 game. In football, having home field actually means something because the crowd can play a role. A bad team can catch a good team on an off day. So in the West, in order to keep pace and have a chance, you have to be good. In the East, all you have to be is not 3rd. A 6-12 record puts you in second place in the East. How does that make any sense?
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon1 View Post
    Imagine Regina, or Calgary, finished 9 and 9 in circumstances identical to the Esks’ finish this year - and now their fans were bemoaning the unfairness of it all. What would people on this board be posting in response?

    Before the Season began each team know the rules, and what they had to accomplish. The time for questions was last winter, not now.

    In many other sports there is not exact parity between divisions or conferences.

    Personally I am ok with the current format.

    East vs West ... it’s historic, it’s the CFL.
    I agree.

    Playoffs aren't about "fairness" anyway. They never were. I mean why give also-ran teams behind the first place club another chance to win the championship?

    Playoffs are about selling tickets.

    If you want a fair system, then you put all the teams are in one division with a balanced schedule. You then award the Grey Cup to the team that finishes first at the end of the regular season.

    If you want to maintain interest in the season as long as possible, if you want to enable the bottom-dwelling clubs to go on selling tickets as late into the season as possible, you have more than one division with an unbalanced schedule to justify the money-making circus called the playoffs. The present system does precisely that.

    Why mess with a system designed to sell tickets just so that a fifth and last place club gets into the playoffs? Because they're more "deserving" than a club from the other division in second place? Excuse me but neither club "deserves" let alone has any business making the playoffs.

    Moreover you fellows aren't just agitating to drop a non-deserving club from the playoffs. You're advocating replacing that non-deserving club with another non-deserving club. And you're willing to undermine a system designed to sell tickets just to get a different non-deserving club into the playoffs? Well that's just silly. Forget it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by glenvb View Post
    IMO, teams that are 8-10 or 9-9 don't really have any right to complain about being eliminated from the playoffs.

    If you deserve to make it, show it by winning more than you lose. If you don't, well, that's not anyone else's fault.
    Exactly! I agree. It's beyond ludicrous for fans of such teams to whine about not making the playoffs. Your team sucked. Case closed. Be glad that the gods were merciful enough to bring the season to an end.

    Last edited by Foxhound; 11-06-2018 at 12:24 PM.
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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nanookster View Post
    I say get rid of the two divisions, have the teams play a balanced schedule. Top six make it out of that.
    Why should there be a whopping six teams playing a balanced schedule in one division all making the playoffs? If you want one division that badly, just give the Grey Cup to the first place team at the end of the year.
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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bobby View Post
    The Esks lost to the Argos. Then they managed to beat them by a whopping 1 point.

    The Esks lost to the Ti-Cats twice.

    There is your playoffs right there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bobby View Post
    The Esks had their destiny in their own hands at the end of the year. They went 2-4. One of those was yesterday's meaningless game. Agreed, their own fault. Not the league.
    Precisely. The Eskimos just plain sucked this year. It wasn't the League's fault. Case closed. Move on.
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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxhound View Post
    I agree.

    Playoffs aren't about "fairness" anyway. They never were. I mean why give also-ran teams behind the first place club another chance to win the championship?

    Playoffs are about selling tickets.

    If you want a fair system, then you put all the teams are in one division with a balanced schedule. You then award the Grey Cup to the team that finishes first at the end of the regular season.

    If you want to maintain interest in the season as long as possible, if you want to enable the bottom-dwelling clubs to go on selling tickets as late into the season as possible, you have more than one division with an unbalanced schedule to justify the money-making circus called the playoffs. The present system does precisely that.

    Why mess with a system designed to sell tickets just so that a fifth and last place club gets into the playoffs? Because they're more "deserving" than a club from the other division in second place? Excuse me but neither club "deserves" to make the Playoffs.

    Moreover you fellows aren't just agitating to drop a non-deserving club from the playoffs. You're advocating replacing that non-deserving club with another non-deserving club. And you're willing to undermine a system designed to sell tickets just to get a different non-deserving club into the playoffs? That's just silly. Forget it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Exactly! I agree. It's beyond ludicrous for fans of such teams to whine about not making the playoffs. Your team sucked. Case closed. Be glad that the gods were merciful enough to bring the season to an end.

    I couldn't disagree more. The playoffs should be about showcasing your leagues best teams in a winner take all format. By having 2 divisions which allows crap teams to get into the playoffs only because their division sucks and they are best of the worst teams in the league doesn't promote good football AND is a way of awarding mediocrity. As I said, all the East teams need to do is be better than 2 other teams who happen to be a the worst teams in the league by a MILE. In return they each get to be in the playoffs AND HOST a playoff game which means MORE MONEY for their players and franchise. How the hell is that fair? This season was bad enough but last years was even worst.

    Last year, the West as follows:
    Calgary 13-4-1
    Winnipeg 12-6
    Edmonton 12-6
    Sask 10-8

    East:
    Toronto 9-9
    Ottawa 8-10

    So Winnipeg who was in second place because I believe they won the season series against the Esks gets rewarded for their really good season by having to play the 3rd best team in the league in the Esks. Edmonton who was tied for the second best record in the league gets reward for their good season but not only NOT getting a home playoff game which is worth a lot of money to them, they also get to play the team they are tied with, with the second best record in the league. The Riders who are 4th place in the West with a record that is better than ALL the East teams get rewarded with no playoff home games and has to play on the road.

    In turn, the Argos who would be 5th overall in the league, gets rewarded with a bye to rest up and prepare AND gets a playoff game. Ottawa who has the 6th best record in the league gets rewarded with a home playoff game.

    Again, how is any of that fair even if it was the Stamps or Riders in the Esks position? You as a league are rewarding teams to be lousy with playoff gates.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    I couldn't disagree more. The playoffs should be about showcasing your leagues best teams in a winner take all format. By having 2 divisions which allows crap teams to get into the playoffs only because their division sucks and they are best of the worst teams in the league doesn't promote good football AND is a way of awarding mediocrity. As I said, all the East teams need to do is be better than 2 other teams who happen to be a the worst teams in the league by a MILE. In return they each get to be in the playoffs AND HOST a playoff game which means MORE MONEY for their players and franchise. How the hell is that fair?

    Again, how is any of that fair even if it was the Stamps or Riders in the Esks position?
    Like I say, playoffs are about selling tickets. They're not about "fairness". In a fair system, none of the also-ran teams would get another chance at upsetting the top team for the championship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    Again, how is any of that fair even if it was the Stamps or Riders in the Esks position? You as a league are rewarding teams to be lousy with playoff gates.
    For whatever reason we like to reward failure in North America. We reward our bottom dwelling teams with higher draft picks. In Europe on the other hand they give the cellar dwelling teams what they actually deserve by relegating them to a lower division.

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Out of the past 10 Grey Cups, the winners are split 5 for the West and 5 for the East.

    Esks knew what they had to do. They couldn't do it. They got what they deserved.

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxhound View Post
    Like I say, playoffs are about selling tickets. They're not about "fairness". In a fair system, none of the also-ran teams would get another chance at upsetting the top team for the championship.



    For whatever reason we like to reward failure in North America. We reward our bottom dwelling teams with higher draft picks. In Europe on the other hand they give the cellar dwelling teams what they actually deserve by relegating them to a lower division.

    Yes Foxhound why does any league in the world have playoffs? I'm pretty sure they even have playoffs in European leagues.

    You must really miss the old Brier format.

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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    All the talk about one division is a waste of breath. With Halifax coming on board soon, the East/West format will be entrenched even further. There will be 5 teams in each division and the cross over will be eliminated.
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    Re: An 8-10 team just finished 2nd in the East and made the playoffs- Fire the coach!

    In the NFL, NHL, MLB, etc., teams do not play balanced schedules. They play the teams in their own division more often than the rest of the league. So it makes sense to be rewarded for finishing atop your division.

    But when Halifax joins, one would expect that you will just play each team home and away. So then what is the point of the divisions? If every team has the exact same schedule, then the top 6 teams should be the playoff teams.

    Hell, even right now with 9 teams, each team plays every team twice and has an extra game against 2 divisional opponents. It’s already a fairly balanced schedule so it makes no sense to split the teams by division.

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