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Thread: Should He Stay or Should He Go?

  1. #61
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    Re: Should He Stay or Should He Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maas_12 View Post
    you seem so sure.

    Id wager he still gets an NFL look, but will ultimately come back north.

    My judgement is hes got all the tools, but maybe lacks a smidge of refinement overall which the NFL is picky af with. (when theres all these other receivers in the pipeline to choose instead)

    - - - Updated - - -



    last I read on twitter was a snippet on how one of their starters went down and that him and some other guy were going to see a lot more targets
    I’m not, but when I play the ‘alternative viewpoint’ role on here, then I have to stay true to that “side.”

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    Re: Should He Stay or Should He Go?

    My understanding is that the CFL has mandated that no free agents will be released early from their contracts, so if any CFL players are hoping to make training camps for the new AAF, that isn't going to happen. Unless the AAF wants to release players early in the season to sign a CFL player after the middle of February, a guy like Mitchell will only have the NFL or CFL as options for 2019. Of course, AAF contracts are not guaranteed, so that option may happen, or injuries may open the door for signings within the season - not sure on the league's SMS structure as a whole.
    Having said that, if Mitchell stays in the CFL, I think he will look to get a huge pay raise and be the #1 or #1A receiver on the team he signs with. I suspect Edmonton will think they can get away with a lower bid than he will ultimately get.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Should He Stay or Should He Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel View Post
    Duke was originally tabbed to come up 3 seasons ago, but wanted to take one more year to exhaust NFL options before signing a 2 year deal. EH & PJ gave him that via gentlemen's agreement.

    One thing that often gets overlooked, and I seriously question if Rhodent even brought this up in the interview, was where did BS plan to mine talent, in terms of regions? Under Pervie, our recruiting pool was far too focused in the deep south , due to that's where Pervie's agent buddies were located from, as was he. Many of those guys who wound up coming here were too small in stature and too soft in cool/cold weather.

    With EH, the focus shifted away from just one main area of the US and focused on regions that developed the type of player EH wanted, big and fast. We also saw a re-dedication to the pacific northwest that has historically produced some very good players for us going back to the 70's. We also made inroads in Texas and Michigan, and into Florida.

    What's even more disappointing is that an entire scouting system was put into place that made sure that future GM's would have a library and network of identifiable talent that all team scouts could view film on and make and compare notes on guys. When Pervie left with his 3 ring notebooks, he took everything the "scouting dept" had officially with him, and if not for PJ and EH making and keeping their own libraries, we likely never would have found half the finds we did in that short of a time. Brock walked into a situation where all he had to do was keep doing the work that had been built for him.

    Sadly now, the relationships tied to those inroads made, have in large moved west as well. Bringing guys to the CFL is far more than just player identification. You have to have a rep, and the ability to cultivate relationships with players, and coaches to convince young guys who'd have a hard time finding Edmonton on a map of canada, to move to a new country, away from family, and make a bit of a new start in life. This isn't like showing up to a workout with NFL papers in hand like Pez Candy.

    As the season went longer and we didn't see any influx in talent to try and shore up obvious weaknesses, it was a major red flag, that we aren't performing as well in the player personnel dept as we did a few short years ago. That IS on Brock.
    Great post again. I said it many times and have argued with several people in here who kept telling me to give Brock a chance and to get over Hervey. Maas is taking heat, he did make some mistakes but what exactly did Brock do to make this team better? He had a 12-6 roster primarily with Hervey guys. He went into this past offseason with a decent roster that needed some tweaking and some shoring up. He did resign a few who I call no brainers at the time in Walker and Gyrmes. Bravo. But he weakened some areas that needed shoring up. He let Figureoa go. Supposedly they didn't even offer him a contract based on what Gregor said recently. So instead of shoring up an Oline, he downgraded it. Guess what happened, the Oline struggled for a good chunk of the season. The Dline, especially the ends need shoring up. So what did Brock do? He downgraded it by trading Odell a year too early. What could he have gotten if he waited 1 more year and Odell who had 11 sacks? His replacement Bazzie wasn't good enough. He did come on a bit but even all the people I argued with have said Bazzie was a bit disappointing. The secondary needed tweaking and he did nothing, he stood pat. So none of his replacements were good enough for the talent the Esks lost and none of his bets by standing pat worked out. When the teams Oline was getting worked over especially at the tackles, he did nothing during the season to address it. They just kept rolling out the same guys over and over again getting the same results. When the secondary was having struggles, he did nothing to bring in any replacements. They just kept rolling the same guys out over and over again. Did some of the guys improve slightly? I guess so if you call being lousy and looking like you can't play to becoming I suppose an adequate back up. But most of them shouldn't start. We lose probably our best receiver for more than 1/3 the season and it happened at a critical time, the stretch drive and he did nothing. Brought in NO ONE. They stood pat and guess what, most of the receivers weren't good enough.

    So I agree with Diesel. I find it alarming that when you have a 12-6 team and in a year that your are hosting the Grey Cup, the GM didn't load up like any other GM would have. I find it alarming that pretty much all the bets he made on guys didn't work out. I find it alarming that any of the guys he brought in didn't work out. I find it alarming that so far he hasn't found ANY find yet. The life blood of a CFL team is finding a few of those guy every year who played second division college or who are working as a delivery guy or whatever job, who aren't a name who come to a random try out in the states and turn into a star. See Gyrmes, Walker, McCoil, Ladder, Lacy, Zylstra, Williams. ALL of those Hervey guys have come out of no where, become STARS then went to the NFL. Brock has found NO ONE. What I find really alarming is a GM should ALWAYS be looking to improve his team every day and he didn't do that. He didn't even do that when injuries happened.
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  4. #64
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    Re: Should He Stay or Should He Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    He downgraded it by trading Odell a year too early. What could he have gotten if he waited 1 more year and Odell who had 11 sacks?
    In hindsight it appears he might have traded Odell a year too early, but its always a tricky balance knowing when to cut ties with a good/great player who is nearing the end, and the most successful teams consistently cut those ties a bit too early rather than a bit too late - best examples are Buono and Hufnagle who are both ruthless about it and often part with a player who still has some tread left on him. Examples that come quickly to mind are Nik Lewis, Charlston Hughes and Geroy Simon. So I’m not going to be too down on Sutherland for this, I think the writing is on the wall for Willis and has been for a couple of years, and though he had a bit of a resurgence this year the end is near for him. I'd rather see them part with a player a year too early as it allows the team to develop a replacement who is ready sooner, assuming a properly managed team. As to whether they got good value for Odell in the trade that is another matter.
    "If you want peace, prepare for war.” Flavius Vegetius Renatus (Roman general) 400 AD

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    Re: Should He Stay or Should He Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Archer View Post
    In hindsight it appears he might have traded Odell a year too early, but its always a tricky balance knowing when to cut ties with a good/great player who is nearing the end, and the most successful teams consistently cut those ties a bit too early rather than a bit too late - best examples are Buono and Hufnagle who are both ruthless about it and often part with a player who still has some tread left on him. Examples that come quickly to mind are Nik Lewis, Charlston Hughes and Geroy Simon. So I’m not going to be too down on Sutherland for this, I think the writing is on the wall for Willis and has been for a couple of years, and though he had a bit of a resurgence this year the end is near for him. I'd rather see them part with a player a year too early as it allows the team to develop a replacement who is ready sooner, assuming a properly managed team. As to whether they got good value for Odell in the trade that is another matter.
    Getting Ceresna for Odell while maybe not equal was a pretty good pick up and Bazzie came on later in the year. If he plays like he did over the last 5 games or so he'll be good but a bit overpaid. My beef with the Esks scouting department is their lack of ability in bringing in no name import talent that turn into stars. Could they have done better in the CFL FA department yes but they weren't as atrocious as they have been in identifying new talent. Only bringing in Cooper, Hunter, and Usher don't cut it IMO.
    Last edited by adb; 11-06-2018 at 11:51 AM.
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  6. #66
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    Re: Should He Stay or Should He Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by T-BONE View Post
    I suck at embedding tweets but Derek Taylor has a tweet recently that shows that Streveler has the highest passer rating in the league when not pressured. And he’s a guy who can escape when pressured and make a play with his legs.

    If Reilly leaves, then this will be a team in transition and Streveler would be my #1 target.
    Totally agree. if I was a GM who was going to go younger at the QB position and live with the growing pains like we did with Reilly a few years ago I'd be talking to the Bombers regarding a trade. They're going to be forced into a decision sooner rather than later in regards to sticking with Nicholls or going with Streveler.
    “RUN THE DANG BALL!" -Leigh Anne Tuohy character from the film The Blind Side

    "Next time, take a case of Pil into the huddle. If you don't get a beer, get the hell off the field!" -New special teams coach for the Riders

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    Re: Should He Stay or Should He Go?

    I suspect Streveler is on a two year deal at a very low $ contract. Much like Edmonton did with James Franklin, having a #2 QB who can win games and doesn't cost a lot, is an asset you don't trade while he's under contract. He would be very tough to pry away from Winnipeg at this time.
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  8. #68
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    Re: Should He Stay or Should He Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    I suspect Streveler is on a two year deal at a very low $ contract. Much like Edmonton did with James Franklin, having a #2 QB who can win games and doesn't cost a lot, is an asset you don't trade while he's under contract. He would be very tough to pry away from Winnipeg at this time.
    Exactly. Have to wait until he is FA like Reilly was.

  9. #69
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    Re: Should He Stay or Should He Go?

    In the CFL there are not guaranteed contracts so this is a fair exercise to discuss if anyone should be released. But players heading into free agency, it isn't up to club alone.

    Some rudimentary investigation I'm sure the folloing names are heading into free agency. List is longer, but can't confirm the rest of the likely names - Williams, Mitchell.

    QB
    Mike Reilly
    Kevin Glenn

    WR
    Derel Walker
    Vidal Hazelton
    Nate Behar
    Kenny Stafford

    OL
    Justin Sorenson
    Colin Kelly

    DB
    Aaron Grymes
    Forrest Hightower

    ST
    Hugh O'Neill


    Haven't checked on everyone, but wonder about Colquhoun & Boateng? Did they sign 2 year deals like Behar or a 3 year deal?
    Not sure about Ceresna, or Chris Edwards, but suspect they could be on expiring deals as well.

  10. #70
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    Re: Should He Stay or Should He Go?

    Also, anyone on the practice roster was officially released.

    Some guys the Eskimos have already signed to future contracts, as per the CFL Transaction wire:

    LB - Pittman
    DB - Gibbons
    WR - Shuler
    WR - Gibson
    RB - Cooper
    RB - Robinson
    QB - Jeremiah Briscoe (new addition, wasn't on PR all year)

    So thus far OL Mason Woods (acquired for Franklin), QB Zach Kline, and 2018 draft pick FB Green (pick used on him instead of Justin Lawrence) all head to free agency.
    2018 draft pick S Jordan Beaulieu is a PR guy who had to be released, but let's hope they resign him in a hurry.

  11. #71
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    Re: Should He Stay or Should He Go?

    Aside from Reilly, in my STAY category is definitely some receivers:
    Derel Walker, and Bryant Mitchell.

    I think the market competition for these guys will be huge.
    BC - Hervey is familiar with them and might see Manny Arceneaux move on to free up space.
    Winnipeg - still not a lot of depth there as Bowman didn't work out and Dressler might be near the end of his career.
    Montreal - absolutely need help, and will have money to spend after clearing out Bowman and Ernest Jackson. I assume they have major interest in Johnny Football's former college teammate Derel Walker.

  12. #72
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    Re: Should He Stay or Should He Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by popo View Post
    In the CFL there are not guaranteed contracts so this is a fair exercise to discuss if anyone should be released. But players heading into free agency, it isn't up to club alone.

    Some rudimentary investigation I'm sure the folloing names are heading into free agency. List is longer, but can't confirm the rest of the likely names - Williams, Mitchell.

    QB
    Mike Reilly
    Kevin Glenn

    WR
    Derel Walker
    Vidal Hazelton
    Nate Behar
    Kenny Stafford

    OL
    Justin Sorenson
    Colin Kelly

    DB
    Aaron Grymes
    Forrest Hightower

    ST
    Hugh O'Neill


    Haven't checked on everyone, but wonder about Colquhoun & Boateng? Did they sign 2 year deals like Behar or a 3 year deal?
    Not sure about Ceresna, or Chris Edwards, but suspect they could be on expiring deals as well.
    Great work buddy.. answering the questions I have in my head before I ask em!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by popo View Post
    Also, anyone on the practice roster was officially released.

    Some guys the Eskimos have already signed to future contracts, as per the CFL Transaction wire:

    LB - Pittman
    DB - Gibbons
    WR - Shuler
    WR - Gibson
    RB - Cooper
    RB - Robinson
    QB - Jeremiah Briscoe (new addition, wasn't on PR all year)

    So thus far OL Mason Woods (acquired for Franklin), QB Zach Kline, and 2018 draft pick FB Green (pick used on him instead of Justin Lawrence) all head to free agency.
    2018 draft pick S Jordan Beaulieu is a PR guy who had to be released, but let's hope they resign him in a hurry.

    Actually very happy that we re upped Cooper and Robinson ..

    Another great list my dude!

  13. #73
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    Re: Should He Stay or Should He Go?

    Shuler reupped? Why. He not once but twice posted Practice formations.

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