View Poll Results: Who Gets Your Support in the CBA Negotiations?

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  • #TeamCFLPA

    13 61.90%
  • CFL - Still need more solid footing

    3 14.29%
  • Undecided

    0 0%
  • Don't care - just get it done!

    5 23.81%
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Thread: CFL CBA Situation

  1. #151
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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    I am glad they got a deal done at the last second. I think a work stoppage would have been a disaster for the CFL.

    Gregor tweeted that it sounds like the Canadian ratio will stay the same. I personally think that is a mistake. Even dropping it by 1 spot I think wouldn't take away from giving Canadian players something to work towards but would improve the quality of the product.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    I have a feeling that (# of Nationals) is something they will revisit when the Maritime team is set to play.
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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    To me, the most interesting part of this will be the length of the contract. I have to wonder if the new one will be less than the previous five year deal...??

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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Esk Reporter View Post
    To me, the most interesting part of this will be the length of the contract. I have to wonder if the new one will be less than the previous five year deal...??
    tentative 3 year deal. hope it gets passed by the players. https://3downnation.com/2019/05/15/e...r-the-players/
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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    I have a feeling that (# of Nationals) is something they will revisit when the Maritime team is set to play.
    That's a big part of me thinking the ratio should be lower. It's already hard enough to find enough starting Canadian talent. Then you factor in needing back ups who can play. Now they plan on bringing in another team. The Canadian talent pool continues to get better but at the same time, we are seeing more Canadian players going to the NFL. So IMO, the supply for Canadian talent in the CFL does not meet demand.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    I am glad they got a deal done at the last second. I think a work stoppage would have been a disaster for the CFL.

    Gregor tweeted that it sounds like the Canadian ratio will stay the same. I personally think that is a mistake. Even dropping it by 1 spot I think wouldn't take away from giving Canadian players something to work towards but would improve the quality of the product.
    I'm somewhat on the opposite side of the spectrum. I was open to the possibility of lowering the ratio as I think there is some merit to the idea that there are fewer Canadians available with more of them making the NFL (I think as a result of their larger rosters) but am good with them being left alone over the next contract and assessing it again especially if we end up with a 10th team. I'm actually disappointed that they didn't include National QBs in the ratio.
    Last edited by adb; 05-15-2019 at 11:15 AM.
    ôRUN THE DANG BALL!" -Leigh Anne Tuohy character from the film The Blind Side

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  7. #157
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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Esk Reporter View Post
    To me, the most interesting part of this will be the length of the contract. I have to wonder if the new one will be less than the previous five year deal...??
    It's 3 years which I fully expected. I figured if it went longer than 3 there would have to be language for either side to opt out after 3 because that's when the CFL's deal with TSN is set to expire.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by adb View Post
    I'm somewhat on the opposite side of the spectrum. I was open to the possibility of lowering the ratio as I think there is some merit to the idea that there are fewer Canadians available with more of them making the NFL (I think as a result of their larger rosters) but am good with them being left alone over the next contract and assessing it again especially if we end up with a 10th team. I'm actually disappointed that they didn't include National QBs in the ratio.
    Things are already at the point where it would make zero sense to lower the starting ratio without lowering the overall NAT content. If they were to lower the requirement for starters from 7 to 5 then they should lower the number of NATs from 21 to something like 15.

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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    It's hard to expect an increase in the Cap when revenues aren't growing for the league, ticket sales are declining, and some teams are losing money.


    Ideally they get a better TV deal, and more revenue streams can emerge from Ambroise's CFL 2.0 initiatives. That can then translate to better stability in the league and higher compensation for the players. But all of that remains to be seen.

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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Excited to hear the progress.

    That said, I won't be celebrating until the final ink is dried and the tweet released.
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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer24 View Post
    It's 3 years which I fully expected. I figured if it went longer than 3 there would have to be language for either side to opt out after 3 because that's when the CFL's deal with TSN is set to expire.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Things are already at the point where it would make zero sense to lower the starting ratio without lowering the overall NAT content. If they were to lower the requirement for starters from 7 to 5 then they should lower the number of NATs from 21 to something like 15.
    The math doesn't track there. 15 Canadians would mean to get to 46 you would need 28 American non-QBs. Given the way the accounting works now, that would be disastrous for the referees, who currently need to only watch the DI players and make sure they are subbing in for another International.

    The only way you can make it work is either reduce the number of DIs to match how fewer Nationals are required to be starters, but keeping the content the same.

    Currently:
    * 23 non-QB positions on O and D combined
    * 20 International players make up a team roster, 4 of them Designated Imports, leaving 16 available to be starters
    * 7 remaining starting positions available, which are filled by Nationals.
    * referees only need to track those 4 DIs, and who they sub in for.

    In your method:
    * 23 non-QB positions on the field
    * 28 International players make up a team roster, 4 of them Designated Imports, leaving 24 available to be starters
    * Now the referees have to check the nationality of every player on the field at all times. No way that's feasible.

    To drop the number of National starters from 7 to 5, just make it 20 International players, but only 2 of them are DIs. Then you've got 18 permitted to be starters, and still allows the 5 Canadians to fill the other spots.
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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by 56Parkies View Post
    The math doesn't track there. 15 Canadians would mean to get to 46 you would need 28 American non-QBs. Given the way the accounting works now, that would be disastrous for the referees, who currently need to only watch the DI players and make sure they are subbing in for another International.

    The only way you can make it work is either reduce the number of DIs to match how fewer Nationals are required to be starters, but keeping the content the same.

    Currently:
    * 23 non-QB positions on O and D combined
    * 20 International players make up a team roster, 4 of them Designated Imports, leaving 16 available to be starters
    * 7 remaining starting positions available, which are filled by Nationals.
    * referees only need to track those 4 DIs, and who they sub in for.

    In your method:
    * 23 non-QB positions on the field
    * 28 International players make up a team roster, 4 of them Designated Imports, leaving 24 available to be starters
    * Now the referees have to check the nationality of every player on the field at all times. No way that's feasible.

    To drop the number of National starters from 7 to 5, just make it 20 International players, but only 2 of them are DIs. Then you've got 18 permitted to be starters, and still allows the 5 Canadians to fill the other spots.
    Keeping the total the same with only 5 NAT starters means you effectively have up to 18 INT starters with only 2 DIs even though they are allowed 3. DI's typically are specialists; either a returner or kicker or for some both. So you really wind up with maybe 1 INT backup for 18 INT starters. Yet there would be up to 16 NATs backing up 5 NAT starting spots. Basically it would create a situation where 3/4 of starters are INTs and ALL backups and ALL rotational players for ALL positions (except QB) are NATs. That seems contradictory to the premise that the ratio should be lowered because of lack of quality NATs.

    Don't get me wrong. I like the ratio just the way it is. I just don't see how they can lower the starting requirement without adjusting the overall content.

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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

















    Last edited by Hugoagogo; 05-15-2019 at 02:12 PM.
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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    I like the raising of the minimum salaries at the cost of the vets. How can you live on the current minimum salaries these days?
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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Canadian QBs part of the ratio in the Canadian Football League...about freaking time!...the rest of the items being reported by Farhan seem positive as well.
    Last edited by adb; 05-15-2019 at 02:15 PM.
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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Well..... I live on a lot less than that, but I'm not away from my family and risking injury and being out of a job at a moment's notice, so I don't begrudge them!
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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by glenvb View Post
    I like the raising of the minimum salaries at the cost of the vets. How can you live on the current minimum salaries these days?
    I support raising the minimum salaries. But to have the vets pay for that?

    So essentially the vets would strike to ensure that they get paid less so the rookies are paid more? They got screwed in the beginning of their careers and now later in their career? I don't see how the vets support that.
    Last edited by Uncle Bobby; 05-15-2019 at 02:18 PM.

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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by adb View Post
    Canadian QBs part of the ratio in the Canadian Football League...about freaking time!...the rest of the items being reported by Farhan seem positive as well.
    For sure. I had suspicion something along those lines was going to happen with several teams bringing in Cdn QB's this year. Usually training camp is so busy they don't want to waste time on players that until now had no chance of making the team.

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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bobby View Post
    I support raising the minimum salaries. But to have the vets pay for that?

    So essentially the vets would strike to ensure that they get paid less so the rookies are paid more? They got screwed in the beginning of their careers and now later in their career? I don't see how the vets support that.
    Honestly, and I know this might not be popular... QB's make too much relative to the rest of the players. And the upper end of vets' salaries have increased quite a bit in the last five years. I'm all for the free market, but when guys are trying to make do with around $50K (often trying to maintain another home back in the USA), I think minimum wage has to go up.

    I also wonder if this had something to do with trying to be competitive with the XFL at the lower salary levels.
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  19. #169

    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by glenvb View Post
    Honestly, and I know this might not be popular... QB's make too much relative to the rest of the players. And the upper end of vets' salaries have increased quite a bit in the last five years. I'm all for the free market, but when guys are trying to make do with around $50K (often trying to maintain another home back in the USA), I think minimum wage has to go up.

    I also wonder if this had something to do with trying to be competitive with the XFL at the lower salary levels.
    I've been thinking this as well, would it be unreasonable to implement a QB cap at say 500k?

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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by ben_the_eskimo View Post
    I've been thinking this as well, would it be unreasonable to implement a QB cap at say 500k?
    I'd personally like to see it.
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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
















    I'm trying to understand how the revenue sharing with 20% of the TSN deal and CFL2.0 going to the players would work...does that mean that if those revenues go up that the players will get more money irrespective of the salary cap? Does it just all go into one pot to be split evenly afterwards?
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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    I'd personally like to see it.
    me too, would help to distribute the cap money and will make it so that guys will stay in one place a little longer.
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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    That's a big part of me thinking the ratio should be lower. It's already hard enough to find enough starting Canadian talent. Then you factor in needing back ups who can play. Now they plan on bringing in another team. The Canadian talent pool continues to get better but at the same time, we are seeing more Canadian players going to the NFL. So IMO, the supply for Canadian talent in the CFL does not meet demand.
    Apparently the owners wanted to get rid of the ratio all together...https://3downnation.com/2019/05/15/c...ghout-new-cba/
    ôRUN THE DANG BALL!" -Leigh Anne Tuohy character from the film The Blind Side

    "Next time, take a case of Pil into the huddle. If you don't get a beer, get the hell off the field!" -New special teams coach for the Riders

    "When the Eskimos are out on defense it looks like there are two or three number 47s out there." -Duane Ford

    "...I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I enjoy the banter though ..." -Looner

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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Macavity View Post
    Well..... I live on a lot less than that, but I'm not away from my family and risking injury and being out of a job at a moment's notice, so I don't begrudge them!
    Have to factor in maintaining a second residence and the costs that go with it and paying taxes in two countries as well. Also need to factor in, on the other side, the ability to supplement the income through the off-season in many cases.

    Like you, I don't begrudge them. I do believe that there is a misconception at times, about the factors that make their salary different that what many Canadians live on.

    Quote Originally Posted by turftoe27 View Post
    For sure. I had suspicion something along those lines was going to happen with several teams bringing in Cdn QB's this year. Usually training camp is so busy they don't want to waste time on players that until now had no chance of making the team.
    There is a differentiation between the Usports Internship program, where every team brings in a Canadian University QB as an extra arm and to get them exposure, and teams like Toronto that drafted O'Connor this year and have Picton and Bridge under contract as well. Guys like that will be much more likely to be fighting for an immediate roster spot (and may hold some trade value).

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bobby View Post
    I support raising the minimum salaries. But to have the vets pay for that?

    So essentially the vets would strike to ensure that they get paid less so the rookies are paid more? They got screwed in the beginning of their careers and now later in their career? I don't see how the vets support that.
    The other shoe has to fall still. The 20% revenue share of the TSN deal and CFL 2.0 isn't likely to go into the CFLPA's bank account - presumably, it will be a variable portion to the salary cap that will be evaluated on a year to year basis. That's my perception, and not based on inside knowledge or having read anything directly pointing to that. Just a case of where else would that revenue share go?

    I do think that it falls within the CFLPA's scope to bargain as to how the salaries are distributed to a degree... again, with the ratification approval from membership... and it wouldn't be unheard of for a players association to accept a maximum salary per player. This is a step towards that without actually enforcing it, as it causes the teams paying top shelf salaries to some to have to find the savings from somewhere if there isn't extra salary cap room available from the revenue share aspect.

    It's hard to not just dive right into this and come up with a verdict on who wins or loses, but even with some good reporting, there's too much uncertainty as to the details at this point imo. I'm glad to see 3-year coverage for injury rehab, and that it's looking good for labour peace for three years and a future prohibition on the withholding bonuses leverage tactic used by the CFL this time around.

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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by adb View Post
    Apparently the owners wanted to get rid of the ratio all together...https://3downnation.com/2019/05/15/c...ghout-new-cba/
    I'm hesitant to draw that conclusion.

    It may have been on the table as a CFL proposal that was designed to be a bargaining chip. Get rid of the ratio altogether and the salary cap, over time, would plummet. It's not that they'd redistribute the premium that they pay Cdn players do to supply and demand - the clubs would ultimately claw it back as they know what they have to pay American players already based on supply and demand.

    My hunch is that this was only a strategic move, and while there may well be some steps taken towards prepping the soil for what happens with the ratio in 3 years (or when the Schooners join), I don't believe that the CFL, under Ambrosie's watch, would have a stance of "wanting to" eliminate the ratio altogether.

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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by turftoe27 View Post
    For sure. I had suspicion something along those lines was going to happen with several teams bringing in Cdn QB's this year. Usually training camp is so busy they don't want to waste time on players that until now had no chance of making the team.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorth View Post

    There is a differentiation between the Usports Internship program, where every team brings in a Canadian University QB as an extra arm and to get them exposure, and teams like Toronto that drafted O'Connor this year and have Picton and Bridge under contract as well. Guys like that will be much more likely to be fighting for an immediate roster spot (and may hold some trade value).
    Wonder if the esks give Adam Sinagra more of a serious look now that Canadian QBs are part of the ratio...his pedigree has been likened to Andrew Buckley's who was able to make the Stamps roster.
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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer24 View Post
    Keeping the total the same with only 5 NAT starters means you effectively have up to 18 INT starters with only 2 DIs even though they are allowed 3. DI's typically are specialists; either a returner or kicker or for some both. So you really wind up with maybe 1 INT backup for 18 INT starters. Yet there would be up to 16 NATs backing up 5 NAT starting spots. Basically it would create a situation where 3/4 of starters are INTs and ALL backups and ALL rotational players for ALL positions (except QB) are NATs. That seems contradictory to the premise that the ratio should be lowered because of lack of quality NATs.

    Don't get me wrong. I like the ratio just the way it is. I just don't see how they can lower the starting requirement without adjusting the overall content.
    So you're saying they should drop the teams from 44 game day players to 38?
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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by glenvb View Post
    Honestly, and I know this might not be popular... QB's make too much relative to the rest of the players. And the upper end of vets' salaries have increased quite a bit in the last five years. I'm all for the free market, but when guys are trying to make do with around $50K (often trying to maintain another home back in the USA), I think minimum wage has to go up.

    I also wonder if this had something to do with trying to be competitive with the XFL at the lower salary levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by ben_the_eskimo View Post
    I've been thinking this as well, would it be unreasonable to implement a QB cap at say 500k?
    I think it might be better to tie it to a percentage of the Salary cap - say no more than 10% of the cap can go to any one player. This way, as the cap rises, the player-max can go up as well.
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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by adb View Post
    Wonder if the esks give Adam Sinagra more of a serious look now that Canadian QBs are part of the ratio...his pedigree has been likened to Andrew Buckley's who was able to make the Stamps roster.
    He does have two more years of eligibility, and presumably, would have to go through the CFL draft (don't think he'd be Supplemental draft eligible), so I don't think he even could be signed for a roster spot. That said, I'm pleased that we're getting an up close look at him, as he had some crazy passing numbers last year, and I presume that he's 2020 draft eligible.

    Ironically, with the mention of Buckley - he will be one of Sinagra's coaches next year at U of C.

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    Re: CFL CBA Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by adb View Post
    Apparently the owners wanted to get rid of the ratio all together...https://3downnation.com/2019/05/15/c...ghout-new-cba/
    I wouldn't be in favor of getting rid of the ration, I just want to see it get to a number where the development system can keep up. If a team has a bad week with Canadians getting injured, they can be screwed. I don't think it's a good thing when a Canadian can retire, spend most of the season not playing or practicing working a desk job, then get signed towards the end of the year and be dressed and on the sidelines after a couple of practices. There simply isn't enough readily available Canadian talent that is good enough yet.
    Last edited by Sectionq; 05-15-2019 at 04:39 PM.
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