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Thread: If Reilly Leaves....

  1. #271
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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by ben_the_eskimo View Post
    I'm not sure I can think of anyone in here that wasn't a fan of Ed Hervey when he was here, it's safe to say the dude was/is universally respected by Eskimos fans.
    You obviously don’t get my sense of humour, but it’s all good, not everyone does

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post

    I’m just saying I hope he has a contingency plan now a week out, escpecially considering the reports.
    I don't doubt he has a few scenarios drawn up. I suspect he's already had a conversation with Toronto
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie123 View Post
    You obviously don’t get my sense of humour, but it’s all good, not everyone does
    I know you were joking in that instance but in general it does seem like the battle you’re trying to fight has no opposition around here, and I’m not sure if you are aware of that.

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by ben_the_eskimo View Post
    I know you were joking in that instance but in general it does seem like the battle you’re trying to fight has no opposition around here, and I’m not sure if you are aware of that.
    Not trying to fight a battle of any sort. Merely state my opinion, same as others including you - serves no purpose other than to make known what I think. Unlike some, I’m not trying to change people’s minds. I know when I’m right vs when it’s my opinion. You’d be surprised how aware I am. Cheers

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Interesting story on 3 Down Nation that is drawing the strategy comparisons of the NHL contract for Austin Matthews to what CFL players have done for years - essentially, take advantage of a much lower tax rate on signing bonuses than on income. In the article (https://3downnation.com/2019/02/07/l...ews-extension/), they cite a tweet from Kevin McGran that talks about the difference on the tax rates being 15% for signing bonuses (if the player maintains a permanent US residence) vs. 53.53% for the salary. What isn't mentioned is that the player would then have to pay tax in the USA, I believe that is typically the difference between what they would owe under US tax thresholds and what they've already paid in Cdn taxes... so if they're at a level of 25% tax in the USA, they'd pay an additional 10% on the signing bonus down there (25% rate less 15% tax paid in Canada).

    I ran some math on 2018 tax rate differences between Alberta and BC, just trying to understand what ultimate impact it would have on a contract such as Reilly's from a tax standpoint. For people earning less that $90,000 or so, it appears that BC actually would have lower provincial income taxes - but obviously with the PST, there is also consumption tax of 7% on many things. Over $90,000, it tips the other way where Alberta is lower. BC hits the top income tax bracket at $150,000, where a person is paying 16.8% above that. By comparison, at the same $150,000 mark, Alberta is only at 12%... eventually topping out at 15% for over $307,547 in earnings). (https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-age...tml#provincial)

    With the inclusion of Federal income tax, and not factoring in deductions, RRSP contributions, expense deductions or other steps to reduce taxes that would vary person to person, on a salary of $550,000, it appears that someone living and working in BC would pay approximately $8400.00 more in taxes (a net rate of 44.168%) compared to living and working in Alberta (net rate of 42.639%). Again, this doesn't include additional sales tax, or cost of living differences. For context, the income tax calculated would be around $240,000.

    With a salary of $700,000, that difference should widen to around $11,100 between Alberta and BC.

    If a team is willing to front load much of the salary, presuming that my understanding is close to correct, and that signing bonus would net out at 15% Canadian income tax and another 10% US income tax, that would be a major tax savings for the player. If Edmonton structured it as a $400,000 signing bonus and a $100,000 salary, for example, it would presumably drop him into a much lower tax bracket on the salary, and save him around $68,000 in taxes through the lower rate on signing bonuses. The player would also receive the money up front, and even at a conservative return of 3% if invested wisely, that would equal additional gains or around $10,000 as opposed to being paid over the course of the season and investing as they go.

    We've seen instances of guys getting a bonus and retiring, so there is risk in some cases. Figuring that it is likely a zero-risk now, with a slight escalation with each passing year, but also understanding that the team can opt out of the contract prior to the bonus being due each year if performance drops, that risk can be largely mitigated or contained.

    Wondering just how much up-front money is going to play a role in the pursuit of Reilly, and just how far the two clubs are willing to bend over backward to accommodate that?

    With playoff money potential capping out around $25k for a Grey Cup winner ($17.5k for a Grey Cup loser), the ability to win definitely can factor in.

    Figuring that cost of living in Vancouver/Surrey may be about 20% more (total wild-ass guess on my part) than in Edmonton, with a higher-end accommodation and expenses of $75,000 to maintain a home/lifestyle there, that could be another $15,000 difference between Vancouver and Edmonton.

    There are going to be soooo many factors for a guy like Mike to consider in his choice. As Morley Scott said on the Eskimo Empire Podcast, going through all the factors, it's hard to find a reason why Mike would choose to leave Edmonton... but that's not to say there isn't one. If it exists, I still believe that it is about family proximity and not football or finances.

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorth View Post
    Interesting story on 3 Down Nation that is drawing the strategy comparisons of the NHL contract for Austin Matthews to what CFL players have done for years - essentially, take advantage of a much lower tax rate on signing bonuses than on income. In the article (https://3downnation.com/2019/02/07/l...ews-extension/), they cite a tweet from Kevin McGran that talks about the difference on the tax rates being 15% for signing bonuses (if the player maintains a permanent US residence) vs. 53.53% for the salary. What isn't mentioned is that the player would then have to pay tax in the USA, I believe that is typically the difference between what they would owe under US tax thresholds and what they've already paid in Cdn taxes... so if they're at a level of 25% tax in the USA, they'd pay an additional 10% on the signing bonus down there (25% rate less 15% tax paid in Canada).

    I ran some math on 2018 tax rate differences between Alberta and BC, just trying to understand what ultimate impact it would have on a contract such as Reilly's from a tax standpoint. For people earning less that $90,000 or so, it appears that BC actually would have lower provincial income taxes - but obviously with the PST, there is also consumption tax of 7% on many things. Over $90,000, it tips the other way where Alberta is lower. BC hits the top income tax bracket at $150,000, where a person is paying 16.8% above that. By comparison, at the same $150,000 mark, Alberta is only at 12%... eventually topping out at 15% for over $307,547 in earnings). (https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-age...tml#provincial)

    With the inclusion of Federal income tax, and not factoring in deductions, RRSP contributions, expense deductions or other steps to reduce taxes that would vary person to person, on a salary of $550,000, it appears that someone living and working in BC would pay approximately $8400.00 more in taxes (a net rate of 44.168%) compared to living and working in Alberta (net rate of 42.639%). Again, this doesn't include additional sales tax, or cost of living differences. For context, the income tax calculated would be around $240,000.

    With a salary of $700,000, that difference should widen to around $11,100 between Alberta and BC.

    If a team is willing to front load much of the salary, presuming that my understanding is close to correct, and that signing bonus would net out at 15% Canadian income tax and another 10% US income tax, that would be a major tax savings for the player. If Edmonton structured it as a $400,000 signing bonus and a $100,000 salary, for example, it would presumably drop him into a much lower tax bracket on the salary, and save him around $68,000 in taxes through the lower rate on signing bonuses. The player would also receive the money up front, and even at a conservative return of 3% if invested wisely, that would equal additional gains or around $10,000 as opposed to being paid over the course of the season and investing as they go.

    We've seen instances of guys getting a bonus and retiring, so there is risk in some cases. Figuring that it is likely a zero-risk now, with a slight escalation with each passing year, but also understanding that the team can opt out of the contract prior to the bonus being due each year if performance drops, that risk can be largely mitigated or contained.

    Wondering just how much up-front money is going to play a role in the pursuit of Reilly, and just how far the two clubs are willing to bend over backward to accommodate that?

    With playoff money potential capping out around $25k for a Grey Cup winner ($17.5k for a Grey Cup loser), the ability to win definitely can factor in.

    Figuring that cost of living in Vancouver/Surrey may be about 20% more (total wild-ass guess on my part) than in Edmonton, with a higher-end accommodation and expenses of $75,000 to maintain a home/lifestyle there, that could be another $15,000 difference between Vancouver and Edmonton.

    There are going to be soooo many factors for a guy like Mike to consider in his choice. As Morley Scott said on the Eskimo Empire Podcast, going through all the factors, it's hard to find a reason why Mike would choose to leave Edmonton... but that's not to say there isn't one. If it exists, I still believe that it is about family proximity and not football or finances.
    very interesting perspective to say the least. Guess we'll see soon enough how this all plays out.
    Edmonton Eskimos, 2015 grey cup CHAMPS!!!!!

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    I was doing similar calculations on the tax rates. I think though it was closer to $130K where Alberta got cheaper. Keep in mind those rates applied against net taxable income, not gross income. Obviously the likes of Mitchell and Reilly would be well beyond the point where it's advantage Alberta. Ontario had even better rates than BC and Alberta.

    On the Matthews situation McCown was talking to Dubas after the deal was announced and asking about possible tax advantages for a US player. Dubas preferred to leave comment on that to Matthews or his agent but acknowledged if a US player maintains a US residence (and possibly prove they reside there) for a certain period of time they can make their income tax contributions in whatever jurisdiction that is. Some states don't have state income taxes. Arizona might be one of them.

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer24 View Post
    I was doing similar calculations on the tax rates. I think though it was closer to $130K where Alberta got cheaper. Keep in mind those rates applied against net taxable income, not gross income. Obviously the likes of Mitchell and Reilly would be well beyond the point where it's advantage Alberta. Ontario had even better rates than BC and Alberta.

    On the Matthews situation McCown was talking to Dubas after the deal was announced and asking about possible tax advantages for a US player. Dubas preferred to leave comment on that to Matthews or his agent but acknowledged if a US player maintains a US residence (and possibly prove they reside there) for a certain period of time they can make their income tax contributions in whatever jurisdiction that is. Some states don't have state income taxes. Arizona might be one of them.
    You might be correct. It was around $80,000 that BC went to a higher progressive tax rate, so yes, the benefits of the lower taxes on the first $80,000 of income will tip the scale in favour of BC for a little past that level.

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by adb View Post
    1000% agree. The other thing I wonder about is who the naysayers think we should replace Brock with? I can't actually think of anyone out there who I would be salivating over. Or do they think that somehow we'll be able to get Ed back? If so I think they're dreaming in technicolor. Brock has done some good things and had a few missteps but he hasn't been Eric Tillman bad to the point that he should be run out of town with torches and pitchforks IMO.

    - - - Updated - - -



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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    So here's a question for you all. If I recall correctly, Mike Reilly has bee has been on the record stating he's not going to sign anywhere until the new CBA is in place. If he signs a contract on Tuesday, do you lose any respect for him? Does your answer change any depending where he signs?

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by BeaverSports View Post
    So here's a question for you all. If I recall correctly, Mike Reilly has bee has been on the record stating he's not going to sign anywhere until the new CBA is in place. If he signs a contract on Tuesday, do you lose any respect for him? Does your answer change any depending where he signs?
    He can’t wait till March to sign really... the cba process is a joke.. mike is the top domino.. once he goes the rest will fall and not many players can hang on till March to know their future.. I won’t hold anything against at all if he signs anywhere next fridsy

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    All I'm hoping is Mike and his agent at least give us the chance to meet or beat any offers out there. (And yes, I hope he does wait until the CBA is done just because that's what he said he would do)
    Just a quick shout out to Mr."Winning isn't everything" for pis*ing away not one but TWO HoF QB's. F*ck you Len and good riddance.

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by BeaverSports View Post
    So here's a question for you all. If I recall correctly, Mike Reilly has bee has been on the record stating he's not going to sign anywhere until the new CBA is in place. If he signs a contract on Tuesday, do you lose any respect for him? Does your answer change any depending where he signs?
    It's an interesting question.

    For me, the answer is no... I don't lose respect for him and it won't be tied to where he signs.

    I believe that he stated his intentions honestly, and whether circumstances have changed over time or whether he's changed his mind, I feel that it's fully within his prerogative.

    The purpose of waiting for the CBA, imo, was based on a) CFL prohibiting signing bonuses, a key tax benefit for a contract of that size, b) helping the CFLPA leverage their negotiations, and c) through his agent's advice, working to maximize the salary of the other FA QBs out there.

    a) It is sounding like teams will offer signing bonuses in contracts prior to the CBA being done, but just won't pay them out until after it's completed.

    b) It could be argued that he's maximizing the leverage for the CFLPA if he feels he's getting a max offer on his contract. The CFLPA would be making the case that the market demand for top QBs has gone up 35%, and that the rise in the cap has to accommodate that and still have some benefit for guys making league min, etc.

    c) If he's getting as much now, as he'd be getting later, he's done his best to set the bar for other QBs. Nothing much more to gain by holding things up, and if he's moving clubs, waiting just hinders his own chances of success.

    I can't fault Mike for looking out for the best interests of him and his family, however he chooses to weight those.

    I can't fault Brock for a) letting him get to Free Agency, or b) his approach to pursuing Mike, both in effort and financially.

    It's freeing sometimes, in sports, to be able to have a scapegoat... someone or something to blame when things go wrong. If Mike signs in BC, I don't believe that there is one in this case - it's just a guy taking care of priorities.

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by BeaverSports View Post
    So here's a question for you all. If I recall correctly, Mike Reilly has bee has been on the record stating he's not going to sign anywhere until the new CBA is in place. If he signs a contract on Tuesday, do you lose any respect for him? Does your answer change any depending where he signs?
    If I was him, I wouldn’t wait, because it would hurt my own chances of winning/having the best team around me. He can afford to wait; he’ll get his bags no matter what. Others can’t.

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by BeaverSports View Post
    So here's a question for you all. If I recall correctly, Mike Reilly has bee has been on the record stating he's not going to sign anywhere until the new CBA is in place. If he signs a contract on Tuesday, do you lose any respect for him? Does your answer change any depending where he signs?
    No to both questions.
    Factors may have changed regarding the CBA that causes him to sign earlier than expected. I think the statement was more to serve as an influence to discussions versus an actual reality. If the QB's that are holding out have done their part to move the CBA forward in their favour, I'm sure they want to get settled into their routines with their 2019 football clubs asap.
    Mike has been a warrior and has given us his all. He deserves to sign wherever it is best for him and his family.
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie123 View Post
    If I was him, I wouldn’t wait, because it would hurt my own chances of winning/having the best team around me. He can afford to wait; he’ll get his bags no matter what. Others can’t.
    Well said

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....





    Looks like we may have the answer.
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post




    Looks like we may have the answer.
    He gone.

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Maybe... check out the other thread with this in it - some posters explained other scenarios

  21. #291

    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post




    Looks like we may have the answer.
    Makes sense at this point, if he's leaving this is the only chance we've got to try and get out in front of it and minimize the damage.

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by ben_the_eskimo View Post
    Makes sense at this point, if he's leaving this is the only chance we've got to try and get out in front of it and minimize the damage.
    Agreed, this is a smart play by BS. If Reilly is going to BC regardless of what the Esks are offering. At least we'll know that early in the game and be able to put back up plan's into place.
    Is it game day yet?????

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Just been listening to the CFL Waggle podcast # 143. Milt Stegall and Sanchez suggesting the Kevin Glenn is the answer if Mike leaves. They suggested this as a better option than going with the QB's on our present roster.

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by turftoe27 View Post
    Just been listening to the CFL Waggle podcast # 143. Milt Stegall and Sanchez suggesting the Kevin Glenn is the answer if Mike leaves. They suggested this as a better option than going with the QB's on our present roster.
    I agree that KG would be a useful combination of insurance/mentor if we're bringing a new QB in... even an experienced one.

    I believe that they also thought he'd be a good fit in Calgary if Bo goes south... sort of a bridge guy/placeholder.

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by turftoe27 View Post
    Just been listening to the CFL Waggle podcast # 143. Milt Stegall and Sanchez suggesting the Kevin Glenn is the answer if Mike leaves. They suggested this as a better option than going with the QB's on our present roster.
    Nah.... not for me ..

    I’ll take the lumps that come with starting whomever we bring in... than waste a year with Glenn...

    If your gonna start, u need to play.. that’s ultimately why we lost franklin... he wants to play and mike just doesn’t come out of games

    I’ll take whatever comes our way ... it’s a no to Glenn for me..

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by turftoe27 View Post
    Just been listening to the CFL Waggle podcast # 143. Milt Stegall and Sanchez suggesting the Kevin Glenn is the answer if Mike leaves. They suggested this as a better option than going with the QB's on our present roster.
    If the Eskimos started next year with Kevin Glenn as their Qb I would be on the fire Sunderland train so fast it would make your head spin.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I would not have granted permission. Sorry we are not going to bend over backwards so you can leave. There are times and deadlines for a reason. If he tells us he is leaving no matter what then BC can cough up some compensation to get him early.

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by cmbuk View Post
    Nah.... not for me ..

    I’ll take the lumps that come with starting whomever we bring in... than waste a year with Glenn...

    If your gonna start, u need to play.. that’s ultimately why we lost franklin... he wants to play and mike just doesn’t come out of games

    I’ll take whatever comes our way ... it’s a no to Glenn for me..
    I'd be ok with Glenn ( or Ray ) as a back up to whomever we bring in if Reilly is gone.

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    If the Eskimos started next year with Kevin Glenn as their Qb I would be on the fire Sunderland train so fast it would make your head spin.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I would not have granted permission. Sorry we are not going to bend over backwards so you can leave. There are times and deadlines for a reason. If he tells us he is leaving no matter what then BC can cough up some compensation to get him early.
    My guess if this is in fact true... is so brock can get a figure from reilly on where bc are financially ( let’s say 650 ) I believe we will offer over 700 plus insentives..

    Then if mike goes.. he goes.. I respect the fact that Sunderland has said we will beat any offer financially ...he’s done and the eskimos have done everything... we have done mike right from start of his esks career to now... that way if mike leaves it’s because mike doesn’t want to be here... and that’s that... I’ll respect it.... because we all love mike and if Mike leaves hes putting his family before winning and what can u do.. #familyfirst as they say
    Last edited by cmbuk; 02-08-2019 at 02:05 PM.

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....



    Hopefully Gregor can ask some tough questions for BS.

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    Re: If Reilly Leaves....

    Classy move by BS; don't blame him. I'd have done the same.

    If you are indeed moving to BC, good luck, and thanks for 2015!

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