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Thread: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

  1. #31
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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bobby View Post
    Really? Just because we have never won 5 in a row again? Wow. Talk about clinging to the past.
    In fairness, Campbell was around well after the 5 in a row and the Esks were still considered generally a success. Campbell left in 2006. Prior to that year, the Esks never missed the playoffs under his watch (whether coach, GM or president) and if I recall correctly had hosted a playoff game in all but maybe a couple of those years.

    Since he left, the Eskimos have missed playoffs 4 times, only made the playoffs by cross-over 3 times, and have only hosted 3 home playoff games. During this time we experienced the Maciocia promotions for failure, multiple coaching changes, the hiring of a child molester as GM who demanded to work from another city, etc. Then when Rhodes came in, starting off with a big mistake signing off on the Ray deal, but made some better moves shortly after bringing in Hervey who in turn improved the team quickly into a Cup winner and bringing in two home playoff games in a very short tenure. But then it fell apart quickly as Jones took off, then Hervey and Rhodes battle leading to Hervey's dismissal. This lead to resentment through some of the ranks which likely resulted in what broke the team down this last year.

    It's been a rough ride. But this is an opportunity to get it back on track and it starts with the board and how they decide on the next President.
    Last edited by bone; 02-15-2019 at 02:11 PM.

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    the BoD needs to die off...

  3. #33

    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    That's the key. If that mistake wasn't made the last time around, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Hire someone good, stay out of his face and let him do his job. I really don't want the board micro-managing what goes on in football ops either.
    That's a good point, if the board is made up of football people you could end up with a "too many cooks in the kitchen" situation.

    I really think this whole problem can be mitigated just by hiring the right person for president to act as a buffer between the BoD and football ops and just trust him to do his thing.

  4. #34
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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    The purpose of what the BoD is supposed to do isn't the issue, it's far more that during the Hughie years, they really didn't have to do much once the ST crisis was fixed in the early 90's. The recent record of this body is pretty abysmal, but as long as the numbers can be made to look good that's all that concerns them.

    As Bill Parcells famously said, " It's easier to be successful when you know what you don't know, as opposed to when you don't know what you don't know.." The BoD has made some truly epic messes because they don't understand the nature in which their decisions affect a living breathing sports franchise. It's not like their regular businesses. I know people who still to this day haven't bought Eskimo tix because they hired Uncle Pervie. The Board was completely oblivious to how revolting a move like that would go over in a city where the team was community owned. RLL to his credit did speak to the Alumni prior to that **** up being made, and was told point blank by the Alumni group that a move like that would be toxic, and they were right. The BoD still did it anyway.

    Hiring a guy with a "sports background" that amounts to nothing more than being a sales rep for a goods manufacturer is a world of difference than lets say hiring a guy who's background was lets say worked in a league office, or another sport franchise's management group. The BoD either didn't know the difference or didn't think it mattered, but it does.

    You can only keep pissing your supporters off so many times before they just say **** it for good. Case in point, the oilers/NHL and myself. Went from owning ST's in 07 to not even caring to watch any games on TV or even if they played on my front lawn because after screw up after screw up, after screw up, I stopped caring altogether. The Esks better be careful because they are swirling around the edge of the bowl with too many people right now
    I hit them as hard as I could on the mouth right from the start of the game so they were thinking this was going to be a long day. Sooner or later one of us had to quit. And it wasn't going to be me.
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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel View Post

    You can only keep pissing your supporters off so many times before they just say **** it for good.
    Some people have been saying that since Don Matthews got canned
    I know there are people out there that stand by their convictions - we've seen it when ET was named GM and how many people cancelled their tickets. I think though, that for every one person that puts up, there are many that just "talk the talk". Maybe that has changed a little in recent years...
    Right now, today... I'm fine with my football club. If I was back in Edmonton, I wouldn't hesitate to get my season tickets back. Hoping the board can find a good football/business guy to take care of things to put all our minds at ease.
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    I agree with many things Diesel said in his original post. At the very least these guys and gals have to be more out front. Communicate WAY more. Make it very clear what they are responsible for and what they do on the board.

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    [QUOTE=Uncle Bobby;860932]Really? Just because we have never won 5 in a row again? Wow. Talk about clinging to the past.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm not talking about the five consecutive Grey Cups.
    The Eskimo record of 34 consecutive years in the playoffs set a North American pro sports record, between 1972 and 2005. Hugh Campbell served for six years as coach and 19 as general manager during this period.

    2005 the EE finished 3rd in the west under rookie Head Coach Danny Maciocia. Thanks to Jason Maas being incredible in the semi-final and final, they made the Grey Cup that year. RIcky Ray went on to win that Grey Cup.
    Next year the Esks missed the playoffs. Hugh Campbell resigns end of 2006, after his 20th year as GM.

    Most of the next eight years were bloody grim. The 1960s all over again.

    EH hired as GM after 2012 season, and Reilly was acquired from BC early in 2013. Esks miss playoffs in 2013. Chris Jones hired after 2013 season. Team second in West in 2014 and get far as the Western Final in 2014. In 2015 Esks finished first in West and won GC. After GC win Chris Jones lured off to Regina. 2016 Esks finish fourth in West, cross over and get as far as Eastern Final. Hervey sacked just before 2017 season. 2017 season Reilly leagues most outstanding player. Esks finish 3rd in west, and go into playoffs after a hot streak of several straight wins. Lose to Calgary in Western final. 2018 Esks miss playoffs. Beginning 2019, Reilly signs with BC.

    We are back at the drawing board.

    And yes … Hugh Campbell's departure left a huge void which was never - and maybe never can be - filled.

    And as Diesel points out above, during the Hughie years the BOD probably relied on him to do most of the "thinking".
    Last edited by Moon1; 02-15-2019 at 07:03 PM.

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    I believe that is 34 straight years in the playoffs.

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon1 View Post
    We are, I feel, back at the drawing board. No disrespect meant to the fee agent players that were just acquired from Ottawa. (On that, our GM was himself "obtained" from Ottawa. He got his coach from there, and now his QB. This is not particularly innovative, imaginative nor sustainable. And its not like the Redblacks are the Steelers. Not at all inspiring).

    We are in a rebuilding year. Again.
    Dean, Umumbra, Knox, Orange, Daniels, Parker, Collins all weren’t RedBlacks. Neither were some guys they retained or signed out of draft or U.S. Bond, Gable and Chick weren’t from Ottawa either. And yes, Maas wasn’t Sunderland’s hire. Sometimes the rhetoric is just that. This is a better football club and it isn’t all coming from one place.

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Quote Originally Posted by Esks1975 View Post
    I believe that is 34 straight years in the playoffs.
    Thx
    Correction made. On line had both 35 and 34.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BeaverSports View Post
    Dean, Umumbra, Knox, Orange, Daniels, Parker, Collins all weren’t RedBlacks. Neither were some guys they retained or signed out of draft or U.S. Bond, Gable and Chick weren’t from Ottawa either. And yes, Maas wasn’t Sunderland’s hire. Sometimes the rhetoric is just that. This is a better football club and it isn’t all coming from one place.
    Yes, above already apologized for attributing Maas hiring to BS, it was EH.
    Thank you.

    Actually, as it is incorrect and a total digression to what I'm saying - I'll remove it.
    Thx
    Last edited by Moon1; 02-15-2019 at 07:41 PM.

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    things aren’t perfect. Fire everyone......

    How much was ending the winning streak impacted by the salary cap????
    What where the contractual penalties for firing Rhodes early?
    Was bringing the Grey Cup to Edmonton not a win for the organization.

    I don’t mean to suggest everything is perfect. But I’m not convinced the whole organization needs to be turfed.

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel View Post
    The purpose of what the BoD is supposed to do isn't the issue, it's far more that during the Hughie years, they really didn't have to do much once the ST crisis was fixed in the early 90's. The recent record of this body is pretty abysmal, but as long as the numbers can be made to look good that's all that concerns them.

    As Bill Parcells famously said, " It's easier to be successful when you know what you don't know, as opposed to when you don't know what you don't know.." The BoD has made some truly epic messes because they don't understand the nature in which their decisions affect a living breathing sports franchise. It's not like their regular businesses. I know people who still to this day haven't bought Eskimo tix because they hired Uncle Pervie. The Board was completely oblivious to how revolting a move like that would go over in a city where the team was community owned. RLL to his credit did speak to the Alumni prior to that **** up being made, and was told point blank by the Alumni group that a move like that would be toxic, and they were right. The BoD still did it anyway.

    Hiring a guy with a "sports background" that amounts to nothing more than being a sales rep for a goods manufacturer is a world of difference than lets say hiring a guy who's background was lets say worked in a league office, or another sport franchise's management group. The BoD either didn't know the difference or didn't think it mattered, but it does.

    You can only keep pissing your supporters off so many times before they just say **** it for good. Case in point, the oilers/NHL and myself. Went from owning ST's in 07 to not even caring to watch any games on TV or even if they played on my front lawn because after screw up after screw up, after screw up, I stopped caring altogether. The Esks better be careful because they are swirling around the edge of the bowl with too many people right now
    I disagree. It's exactly the core of the issue you are complaining about and the role of the board today shouldn't be different than it was during Campbell's era. According to your narrative the BoD was responsible for hiring Tillman. That should never have been an issue as that hire was the President's to make. Sure, he might have consulted the BoD, but it was his hire. The board of a non-profit organization should only be involved at the strategic planning level, not operations, and hiring a GM is an operational decision.

    If the BoD decides that increasing ST sales is a strategic direction for the EEFC then they let the President know this and he gets to work to make that happen. If increasing overall revenue is to be a priority (as I suspect it has been for several years now) then the President is given his marching orders, hires Disney to provide marketing input on how to do that, gets to work on the framework they provide and is held accountable by the board for achieving that goal. That's how a non-profit board is supposed to work.

    It sounds like we have board members that a) don't understand what a sports team's priorities should be, and therefore are hiring the wrong type of talent for president and giving him the wrong marching orders, and b) messing in operational decision making. The combination of the two is guaranteed to mess things up as you describe.
    GO ESKS GO!

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel View Post
    Believe what you like. The current ST situation is very troubling for the BoD.
    Bring is Sean Fleming, Dave Fennel, and Tom Wilkinson all are ex players who have had successful careers after football.
    Run the Ball up the gut around the horn it does not matter. We run we win what is so difficult to understand.

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Quote Originally Posted by danlaurin View Post
    Bring is Sean Fleming, Dave Fennel, and Tom Wilkinson all are ex players who have had successful careers after football.
    Fennel is a multi-millionaire (mining), and I just can't see him being at all interested. I have a world of respect for Wilkie, but he is in no shape to take on the rigors of the position.

    I have love for those that have played this game, sacrificed and made the league what it is through their contributions, but more often than not, they are not guys that I would want in a Boardroom. We've seen too much disfunction in Alumni associations, on the club level and nationally. Whether it is a case of not having well-rounded enough skill sets at the table, or a case of "I played the game, therefore I have expertise running football related organizations", there have been some horrific stories. That is not to say that there aren't bad non-profit Boards or for-profit Boards too.

    I almost wonder if the idea would be for the Board to strike a committee of advisors to meet twice a year and assist the President with the evaluation of the GM and Football Operations. With a lesser commitment, and something tasked with much more of a football skill set, perhaps they could attract talent that they otherwise might not - people not suited for the Board or unwilling to commit to that responsibility.

    Fact is, while there needs to be a chain of command, I don't know how you hire a person to be President, with everything that requires, and expect him to have the football chops to second guess a John Hufnagel or a Wally Buono or an Ed Hervey.

    By being able to have advisors including former GMs and Coaches that understand, from experience, the pressures of the job, but also the need to balance short-term and long-term thinking and winning at all costs against being a respectful organization at the Centre of a proud and successful franchise.

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    The Board aren't accountable to anyone. And outside of that board room, very few fans have Diesel's knowledge of the structure and situation, so people don't notice or care.

    So nothing actually will change.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Quote Originally Posted by stamphater View Post
    A lot of good points made here...

    One thing I don't really see....is how this gets fixed. Or if the everyday fan even has a chance to do anything.
    I cancelled my seasons Ed was let go and the "winning is not enough" crap.

    Considered getting them again but didn't like that they didn't have the stones to actually fire the moron and admit their mistakes and instead let him go on about how toxic twitter was for him.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

    http://www.nonstopsportspicks.com/br...-professional/

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    There is no mechanism for a structural change to occur. So it won't.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    The Board aren't accountable to anyone. And outside of that board room, very few fans have Diesel's knowledge of the structure and situation, so people don't notice or care.

    So nothing actually will change.
    Boards, by their nature are not generally accountable to anyone outside. They are accountable to each other and ultimately to the results - more so financial, though financial results depend on football results to a degree.

    Who would you have the Board accountable to? Who would that person then be accountable to? Buck has to start somewhere.

    I respect Diesel's viewpoints and sources, but I think this thread has shown that there are, indeed, a few others that have excellent knowledge and insights as to how Boards work, and some with specific relationships and knowledge of the EEFC Board.

    There are also some that just choose to believe that they're a bunch of 'suits' padding their resumes and patting each other on the back with no care or concern about the on-field product. I believe those beliefs to be largely unfounded and inaccurate.

    I cannot, and will not, defend all the actions or decisions of the Board, but I know for a fact that they had a lot more information about the issues they were deciding on that we have seen publicly. I fully believe that there were some errors made, but I don't believe it was for lack of good intent or being out of their depth knowledge wise.

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorth View Post
    Boards, by their nature are not generally accountable to anyone outside. They are accountable to each other and ultimately to the results - more so financial, though financial results depend on football results to a degree.

    Who would you have the Board accountable to? Who would that person then be accountable to? Buck has to start somewhere.

    I respect Diesel's viewpoints and sources, but I think this thread has shown that there are, indeed, a few others that have excellent knowledge and insights as to how Boards work, and some with specific relationships and knowledge of the EEFC Board.

    There are also some that just choose to believe that they're a bunch of 'suits' padding their resumes and patting each other on the back with no care or concern about the on-field product. I believe those beliefs to be largely unfounded and inaccurate.

    I cannot, and will not, defend all the actions or decisions of the Board, but I know for a fact that they had a lot more information about the issues they were deciding on that we have seen publicly. I fully believe that there were some errors made, but I don't believe it was for lack of good intent or being out of their depth knowledge wise.
    The issue is they are making too many errors lately, and not small ones...
    I hit them as hard as I could on the mouth right from the start of the game so they were thinking this was going to be a long day. Sooner or later one of us had to quit. And it wasn't going to be me.
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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorth View Post
    Boards, by their nature are not generally accountable to anyone outside. They are accountable to each other and ultimately to the results - more so financial, though financial results depend on football results to a degree.

    Who would you have the Board accountable to? Who would that person then be accountable to? Buck has to start somewhere.

    I respect Diesel's viewpoints and sources, but I think this thread has shown that there are, indeed, a few others that have excellent knowledge and insights as to how Boards work, and some with specific relationships and knowledge of the EEFC Board.

    There are also some that just choose to believe that they're a bunch of 'suits' padding their resumes and patting each other on the back with no care or concern about the on-field product. I believe those beliefs to be largely unfounded and inaccurate.

    I cannot, and will not, defend all the actions or decisions of the Board, but I know for a fact that they had a lot more information about the issues they were deciding on that we have seen publicly. I fully believe that there were some errors made, but I don't believe it was for lack of good intent or being out of their depth knowledge wise.
    Oh, I don't disagree with you. But the board at EEFC doesn't seem to take its job very seriously. And there's no real way to fix that. It's treated with less care than most non-profits.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    Oh, I don't disagree with you. But the board at EEFC doesn't seem to take its job
    very seriously. And there's no real way to fix that. It's treated with less care than most non-profits.
    I don't know what sort of compensation the BOD gets but suspect it isn't much more than a token amount to cover time and any expenses. I kind of doubt any of them would be doing it if they didn't have a passion for the Eskimos and desire to see them succeed both on the field and off.

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer24 View Post
    I kind of doubt any of them would be doing it if they didn't have a passion for the Eskimos and desire to see them succeed both on the field and off.
    Passion and desire are one thing; competence is another.

    Just ask the NDP...
    "Here comes the rush...Ray looking endzone, Fred. Stamps. TOUCHDOWN!" - Fred Stamps' TD with 8 seconds left against the Stampeders in 2009

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Quote Originally Posted by OK14 View Post
    Passion and desire are one thing; competence is another.

    Just ask the NDP...
    I'll just leave this here


    Last edited by Hugoagogo; 02-20-2019 at 11:33 PM.
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Oh dear god

    - - - Updated - - -

    ****ing up a football team is one thing, ****ing up my government actually affects me in real life.

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    I'll just leave this here




    As much as I want to vote UCP, things like this frustrate me.
    "Here comes the rush...Ray looking endzone, Fred. Stamps. TOUCHDOWN!" - Fred Stamps' TD with 8 seconds left against the Stampeders in 2009

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    I'll just leave this here


    Had heard that a couple months back. I'd love to be at his first open candidates forum and ask, " So as a customer of the last biz you oversaw, you raised my tix prices yearly, which would associate with taxes in your new venture, lowered my service level and selection, and removed some of the most highly proficient people within your organization, not one, not two, but three times. Is this what taxpayers should expect from you ?"
    I hit them as hard as I could on the mouth right from the start of the game so they were thinking this was going to be a long day. Sooner or later one of us had to quit. And it wasn't going to be me.
    - Dan Kepley

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel View Post
    Had heard that a couple months back. I'd love to be at his first open candidates forum and ask, " So as a customer of the last biz you oversaw, you raised my tix prices yearly, which would associate with taxes in your new venture, lowered my service level and selection, and removed some of the most highly proficient people within your organization, not one, not two, but three times. Is this what taxpayers should expect from you ?"
    thats gold!

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    LOL! They'll parachute in Rhodes when 3 candidates have been campaigning for that nomination for a year. Real grassroots party right there. If Rhodes is with them, I'm sure as hell not!
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    Wonder if he'll have some washed up HipHop artist as a campaign manager

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    Re: It's Time for Structural Change within the BoD

    I'm not going to talk politics but dear God sweet cream on an ice cream sandwich please don't let Len ever go all Tony Clement I don't think I could ever get that image out of my mind.
    In Rod we trust

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