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Thread: Alberta Election 2019

  1. #91
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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    Holy Hell, I actually agree with DDS!!

    I live in a winter country, it's below freeze for 5 months a year. I have to heat my home, I don't have a choice. When it's 35 freak below for a month and a half like it was this year, what am I supposed to do, not turn on my furnace? So tacking on a tax to heat my home where the choice is to pay it or freeze to death is not right. I don't even have the option right now to buy electricity from a non carbon burning producer. There is no giant solar farm, there is no nuclear plant. I don't have an alternative right now yet you slap a punishment tax for me heating my home in a winter country and turning my LED lights on. Give me an alternative and I will gladly take it to cut down my carbon footprint.
    It doesn't have to be about everyone taking all the measures all the time. Yes - a person has to heat their homes when it's cold - I'm guessing that you are more conscious of not having it at 23C for the entire time and leaving the windows open.

    I'm looking at $1.61 for gas today on Vancouver Island - you can bet that it impacts some discretionary driving decisions, but doesn't stop me from driving to work.

    It's a tough element to overcome - doing the right thing because we're likely at/close to/past the point in time where we're facing no return - even in the face of bigger emmitters out there and nations that should be world leaders that are more in the category of deniers despite getting bombarded with storms, fires and floods.

    I do much better than I used to - more fuel efficiency, low-flow toilets, LED lights, composting, recycling, and even voted Green in the last BC provincial election - but I know that I can do better, and still, too frequently, can be thrown off by expense of doing the right thing, especially if the payoff seems intangible. When I rent a car or book a flight, I'm looking for the Hells No button when they offer that I can buy an offset credit. I admire people that do the noble thing by choice, but I will likely be the type that will need it thrust upon me to change my behaviour that way.

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    I'll take up the "why should we when China isn't?" mantle!

    China 27% of world emissions.
    Canada 2%.
    A couple other numbers:
    China 18.4% of the world population
    Canada 0.49%

    So a country with 37.5 times the population is only producing 13.5 times more pollution.

    2017 Fossil CO2 emissions per capita (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...xide_emissions)
    China 7.7
    Canada 16.9
    Norway 8.8 (I added Norway since they are a northern hemisphere oil-producing nation)

    Yes, we are a smaller nation than China, but per capita, we are the 12th highest emitter in the world, more than double China. We can be doing better. We should be doing better. Are we going to change behaviors in the rest of the world? Probably not. Does that mean we should say **** it and not do anything at all? Who gives a crap about our kids and grandkids anyway? That's their problem!

    Does a carbon tax work? Seems to be making a difference in BC, where they have had one since 2008: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/02/b...-columbia.html Or you could ask the Nobel prize winner in Economics: https://www.forbes.com/sites/howardg.../#4f97d6a6a03d

    Should it be higher to make a bigger difference? Yeah, probably. But even BC's rate is making a difference.

    Look, I'd love to pay fewer taxes and have more money in my pocket. And I hate seeing tax dollars wasted (like say on frivolous lawsuits or referendums, for example), but they also pay for some pretty important things, like roads, and health care, and education for our kids, among tons of other things. You are absolutely right that there is nothing legally binding to say that the carbon tax *has* to go into rebates and green initiatives. But so far, that is where the money has been going. Kenney would prefer to send that money to Ottawa, instead, which is pretty dumb since he also wants to spend money on a useless referendum about equalization payments. (As long as we have a provincial plan in place, we stand to gain from the federal plan, but once the provincial plan is eliminated, that money goes to Ottawa and you know darn well that more money will be leaving than coming back).

    And you are absolutely right, right now we have very few choices. In some cases, a carbon tax will convince someone to make a different choice when possible, like walking, riding a bike, using transit, buying a more fuel efficient car, installing solar panels on their roof, etc. In other cases, those options simply don't exist for us...yet. As some of the carbon taxes are diverted to green projects, it slowly makes those options more readily available. It isn't going to happen over night, mind you. But as those options become available and more people do start choosing them, economies of scale will start bringing the prices down on those options so that they can become more competitive without subsidization. And so we will have more choice in the long run.

    For those that don't have a choice (or simply don't care and don't even want to try), think of the carbon tax as "pre-paying" for clean-up on the pollution. (Now I know that isn't how it is being used, but ideally once greener options are available to everyone, that is how it should be used). Much like taxes on cigarettes and alcohol are in a way "pre-paying" for the health care that they'll eventually cause us to require (again, I know those taxes go in to general revenue, but a good chunk of that goes to pay for health care). It's not taking away our choice to drink or smoke, an increased price may however cause some people to reduce their consumption or even give it up, while others will pay the tax and keep on smoking away. At least some of the taxes that they pay over the years go on to pay for their cancer/COPD/heart attack treatment.

    For climate change deniers, flat earthers, and anti-vaxxers, there is no argument that is going to change their minds. But that is an argument for a different day. Most rational people agree that climate change is real. We can argue about what the best way to deal with it is, but I can tell you that doing something about it beats doing nothing about it. Is a carbon tax in Alberta enough to save the planet? Of course not. But we've got to start somewhere, so until you can get the world to agree to ban cruise ships, until you can get the leaders to sign a binding multilateral agreement, this is as good a place as any to start.

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    As much as I dislike the NDP, I’m glad their candidate clobbered Lyin Lenny Rhoades!

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by eskfan152 View Post
    As much as I dislike the NDP, I’m glad their candidate clobbered Lyin Lenny Rhoades!
    Winning isn't everything, right, Len?

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by nafnikufesin View Post
    Winning isn't everything, right, Len?
    Burn
    Out of my mind; back in five minutes.

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by nafnikufesin View Post
    Winning isn't everything, right, Len?
    Post of the year!
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by nafnikufesin View Post

    For climate change deniers, flat earthers, and anti-vaxxers, there is no argument that is going to change their minds. But that is an argument for a different day. Most rational people agree that climate change is real. We can argue about what the best way to deal with it is, but I can tell you that doing something about it beats doing nothing about it. Is a carbon tax in Alberta enough to save the planet? Of course not. But we've got to start somewhere, so until you can get the world to agree to ban cruise ships, until you can get the leaders to sign a binding multilateral agreement, this is as good a place as any to start.
    Compare flying onto Beijing with flying into Toronto. I'll take Canada's environmental record over China's 10 times out of 10.

    Saying that Canada hasn't done better ignores all the progress since the 1970s.

    And yes, if China doesn't reduce emissions, nothing we do will matter one iota.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    Holy Hell, I actually agree with DDS!!

    I live in a winter country, it's below freeze for 5 months a year. I have to heat my home, I don't have a choice. When it's 35 freak below for a month and a half like it was this year, what am I supposed to do, not turn on my furnace? So tacking on a tax to heat my home where the choice is to pay it or freeze to death is not right. I don't even have the option right now to buy electricity from a non carbon burning producer. There is no giant solar farm, there is no nuclear plant. I don't have an alternative right now yet you slap a punishment tax for me heating my home in a winter country and turning my LED lights on. Give me an alternative and I will gladly take it to cut down my carbon footprint.
    you can actually install solar on your own roof and either cut down or eliminate your bill. Some even sell power back to the grid.
    Edmonton Eskimos, 2015 grey cup CHAMPS!!!!!

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorth View Post
    It doesn't have to be about everyone taking all the measures all the time. Yes - a person has to heat their homes when it's cold - I'm guessing that you are more conscious of not having it at 23C for the entire time and leaving the windows open.

    I'm looking at $1.61 for gas today on Vancouver Island - you can bet that it impacts some discretionary driving decisions, but doesn't stop me from driving to work.

    It's a tough element to overcome - doing the right thing because we're likely at/close to/past the point in time where we're facing no return - even in the face of bigger emmitters out there and nations that should be world leaders that are more in the category of deniers despite getting bombarded with storms, fires and floods.

    I do much better than I used to - more fuel efficiency, low-flow toilets, LED lights, composting, recycling, and even voted Green in the last BC provincial election - but I know that I can do better, and still, too frequently, can be thrown off by expense of doing the right thing, especially if the payoff seems intangible. When I rent a car or book a flight, I'm looking for the Hells No button when they offer that I can buy an offset credit. I admire people that do the noble thing by choice, but I will likely be the type that will need it thrust upon me to change my behaviour that way.
    I built our current house and we have been in it 4 yrs this August. So as a result, I didn't cheap out on my insulation. I have good windows. My furnace is the tip top of what you can get for efficiency. I have a high efficiency water tank. All my appliances are high efficient. When we took possession, I changed EVERY bulb in my house to LED's. It was not cheap. I have a nest smart thermostat that has all of our heating and cooling on a schedule. On work days it heats it up a bit in the morning then when we are away at work, it drops down the temperature. This happens all year around. There are sensors around the house so when we aren't home like say to get groceries, it drops down the temperature. Plus it drops down at night. I have some lights, especially my outdoor lights on a smart timer. Our house is never above 20. If you have a chill, you get a blanket. We recycle, we compost. I haven't put solar panels on the roof yet but I can see it happening one day. It's just with the current economy, it doesn't make financial sense for my family to do it. There isn't much more I can do to cut down my carbon footprint as a normal, everyday person yet the now past government decided that I needed to do more. So they decided that the way that I can do more is to give them more of my hard earned money. Sorry, I don't accept that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    you can actually install solar on your own roof and either cut down or eliminate your bill. Some even sell power back to the grid.
    I have actually thought about doing that and I can see the day when it happens. My taxes have gone up, I am paying more to feed my family because the cost of everything has gone up, the cost to heat and power my home has gone up, the economy has been in the toilet, my take home pay is down because my company has taken a hit financially thanks to the crap economy plus the cost of doing business has gone up thanks to some NDP policy. There is only so much money to go around. Outfitting your home with solar is not exactly cheap. I know the NDP had a program where they would cover off a portion of the cost but there was a catch and I listened to this on Ched when he had one of the ministers on his show. In order to get the government to cover off the portion they agreed too, you still have to pay all of the fees. Transmission fees, etc. So when you put up solar and even if you generate more than you need, the only thing you are allowed to get taken off your bill to have the government give you the rebate is the actual cost of the electricity you use. The minister said you have to pay all the other fees because they need the money to pay for other things. If you want to go completely billless, you don't get the rebate. So when I look at my bill, I pay more in fees (charges, allocation, fees) than I do in the energy I use.
    Last edited by Sectionq; 04-17-2019 at 10:25 AM.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    I built our current house and we have been in it 4 yrs this August. So as a result, I didn't cheap out on my insulation. I have good windows. My furnace is the tip top of what you can get for efficiency. I have a high efficiency water tank. All my appliances are high efficient. When we took possession, I changed EVERY bulb in my house to LED's. It was not cheap. I have a nest smart thermostat that has all of our heating and cooling on a schedule. On work days it heats it up a bit in the morning then when we are away at work, it drops down the temperature. This happens all year around. There are sensors around the house so when we aren't home like say to get groceries, it drops down the temperature. Plus it drops down at night. I have some lights, especially my outdoor lights on a smart timer. Our house is never above 20. If you have a chill, you get a blanket. We recycle, we compost. I haven't put solar panels on the roof yet but I can see it happening on day. . It's just with the current economy, it doesn't make financial sense for my family to do it. There isn't much more I can do to cut down my carbon footprint as a normal, everyday person yet the now past government decided that I needed to do more. So they decided that the way that I can do more is to give them more of my hard earned money. Sorry, I don't accept that.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I have actually thought about doing that and I can see the day when it happens. My taxes have gone up, I am paying more to feed my family because the cost of everything has gone up, the cost to heat and power my home has gone up, the economy has been in the toilet, my take home pay is down because my company has taken a hit financially thanks to the crap economy plus the cost of doing business has gone up thanks to some NDP policy. There is only so much money to go around. Outfitting your home with solar is not exactly cheap. I know the NDP had a program where they would cover off a portion of the cost but there was a catch and I listened to this on Ched when he had one of the ministers on his show. In order to get the government to cover off the portion they agreed too, you still have to pay all of the fees. Transmission fees, etc. So when you put up solar and even if you generate more than you need, the only thing you are allowed to get taken off your bill to have the government give you the rebate is the actual cost of the electricity you use. The minister said you have to pay all the other fees because they need the money to pay for other things. If you want to go completely billless, you don't get the rebate. So when I look at my bill, I pay more in fees (charges, allocation, fees) than I do in the energy I use.
    Solar is a GREAT option if it didn't cost so much to get a system installed. Right now the turn around time (when you'll cover your cost and start making money) is around 6-8 years depending on how much you do. That number comes down the more the government taxes energy. IMO you need to get the turn around time closer to 2 years in order to get people to seriously consider residential solar.
    Edmonton Eskimos, 2015 grey cup CHAMPS!!!!!

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    Solar is a GREAT option if it didn't cost so much to get a system installed. Right now the turn around time (when you'll cover your cost and start making money) is around 6-8 years depending on how much you do. That number comes down the more the government taxes energy. IMO you need to get the turn around time closer to 2 years in order to get people to seriously consider residential solar.
    Solar is an awesome option (at some point). Currently I live in a two-bedroom townhouse. I usually close off rooms I'm not in and only heat the one or two I am in on cold winter nights. Of course, it's not an extreme winter on the West Coast, so it's do-able. Anything to help with my energy costs and the environment. I think those people switching to mini-homes may have the right idea. Again, not a solution for someone like q who has children, but I'd look into it if the right situation arose. I just need some room for my guitars and keyboards
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    I built our current house and we have been in it 4 yrs this August. So as a result, I didn't cheap out on my insulation. I have good windows. My furnace is the tip top of what you can get for efficiency. I have a high efficiency water tank. All my appliances are high efficient. When we took possession, I changed EVERY bulb in my house to LED's. It was not cheap. I have a nest smart thermostat that has all of our heating and cooling on a schedule. On work days it heats it up a bit in the morning then when we are away at work, it drops down the temperature. This happens all year around. There are sensors around the house so when we aren't home like say to get groceries, it drops down the temperature. Plus it drops down at night. I have some lights, especially my outdoor lights on a smart timer. Our house is never above 20. If you have a chill, you get a blanket. We recycle, we compost. I haven't put solar panels on the roof yet but I can see it happening on day. . It's just with the current economy, it doesn't make financial sense for my family to do it. There isn't much more I can do to cut down my carbon footprint as a normal, everyday person yet the now past government decided that I needed to do more. So they decided that the way that I can do more is to give them more of my hard earned money. Sorry, I don't accept that.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I have actually thought about doing that and I can see the day when it happens. My taxes have gone up, I am paying more to feed my family because the cost of everything has gone up, the cost to heat and power my home has gone up, the economy has been in the toilet, my take home pay is down because my company has taken a hit financially thanks to the crap economy plus the cost of doing business has gone up thanks to some NDP policy. There is only so much money to go around. Outfitting your home with solar is not exactly cheap. I know the NDP had a program where they would cover off a portion of the cost but there was a catch and I listened to this on Ched when he had one of the ministers on his show. In order to get the government to cover off the portion they agreed too, you still have to pay all of the fees. Transmission fees, etc. So when you put up solar and even if you generate more than you need, the only thing you are allowed to get taken off your bill to have the government give you the rebate is the actual cost of the electricity you use. The minister said you have to pay all the other fees because they need the money to pay for other things. If you want to go completely billless, you don't get the rebate. So when I look at my bill, I pay more in fees (charges, allocation, fees) than I do in the energy I use.
    Can't wait for all these costs to go back down.
    The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    Can't wait for all these costs to go back down.
    Why is it impossible for energy prices to go down?

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    Solar is an awesome option (at some point). Currently I live in a two-bedroom townhouse. I usually close off rooms I'm not in and only heat the one or two I am in on cold winter nights. Of course, it's not an extreme winter on the West Coast, so it's do-able. Anything to help with my energy costs and the environment. I think those people switching to mini-homes may have the right idea. Again, not a solution for someone like q who has children, but I'd look into it if the right situation arose. I just need some room for my guitars and keyboards
    We just call the dogs up on the bed in winter. " Snuggle Time." Warm as toast. The only problem is they don't seem to think that everyone should face the same direction.

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    Solar is a GREAT option if it didn't cost so much to get a system installed. Right now the turn around time (when you'll cover your cost and start making money) is around 6-8 years depending on how much you do. That number comes down the more the government taxes energy. IMO you need to get the turn around time closer to 2 years in order to get people to seriously consider residential solar.
    I completely agree with you. If it didn't cost so much to get it installed and take so long to recover the costs, I would have done it by now.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    I really wish the Tesla roofs were more affordable here. We looked into it last year when we re-did our roof and the cost was more than double. But yeah even if you have power surplus you still have to pay the transmission charges and fees and crap. Edmonton won't allow you to not have power hooked up to your house!
    When we build our retirement house it's going to have solar, geo-thermal and a lot more insulation than is currently mandatory. You can't quite live off the grid but you can get closer. It's always easier to do it while you're building rather than retro fitting after the fact. I hate the fact I pay three times more in fees and taxes than I actually do for the power I use.
    Just a quick shout out to Mr."Winning isn't everything" for pis*ing away not one but TWO HoF QB's. F*ck you Len and good riddance.

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by boydo View Post
    I really wish the Tesla roofs were more affordable here. We looked into it last year when we re-did our roof and the cost was more than double. But yeah even if you have power surplus you still have to pay the transmission charges and fees and crap. Edmonton won't allow you to not have power hooked up to your house!
    When we build our retirement house it's going to have solar, geo-thermal and a lot more insulation than is currently mandatory. You can't quite live off the grid but you can get closer. It's always easier to do it while you're building rather than retro fitting after the fact. I hate the fact I pay three times more in fees and taxes than I actually do for the power I use.
    It's really a joke isn't it that you pay more in fees and charges and whatever the hell they call them vs the actual power and gas you use.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    It's really a joke isn't it that you pay more in fees and charges and whatever the hell they call them vs the actual power and gas you use.
    Not really. Overhead is expensive for power. Those powerlines you see all over the province are really expensive to build and maintain. What's odd is everything is broken on your power bill unlike most every other thing you pay for. Fortunately though, producing power has gotten a lot more expensive over the last 4 years for some reason, so the other charges wont seem as expensive. Just wait until the economy is actually producing things again. We're going to have a hard time powering ourselves.

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    REDmonton! Commies!

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    REDmonton! Commies!
    It's weird how that happens in a government town. A full quarter of our working population doing so in government, health, and education who vote for more socialist policies shouldn't surprise anyone. People who are reliant on the government tend to vote for more government.

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by BaronAmongYou View Post
    It's weird how that happens in a government town. A full quarter of our working population doing so in government, health, and education who vote for more socialist policies shouldn't surprise anyone. People who are reliant on the government tend to vote for more government.
    I'd be curious to know all the people that are pissed off, swearing and calling anyone that voted UCP some pretty awful names, what do they do for a living? Are they a private sector worker many of whom are struggling or unionized government worker with a recession proof job? When a recession hits being that in Canada, we are still a fairly socialist country considering the high taxation and all the government provided programs, guess who takes the hits first and usually the biggest hits? The private sector. Guess who doesn't feel it as much? Unionized government employees. When a teacher or a Nurse who's hours are guaranteed, pension is guaranteed, salary is guaranteed, points the finger at someone who works in the private sector and calls them a racist or a homophobe or all the other things I have seen them call people, I wonder if that would change if the shoe was on the other food. It's easy to call someone greedy or get all self righteous on social issues when you aren't worrying about how you are going to make your next mortgage payment or which bills to pay this month and which ones to not pay because you haven't worked in a while or you have taken a big hours or paycut.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    I can tell you with certainty, non-government unionized workers got absolutely hammered over the part 4 years in Edmonton.

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by BaronAmongYou View Post
    I can tell you with certainty, non-government unionized workers got absolutely hammered over the part 4 years in Edmonton.
    I work for a small private engineering firm and our revenue has gone down every year. I can tell you that it's not for a lack of trying. We write more proposals than ever and look for work farther away than ever at times stretching our small company to the limits but we have no choice. There is physically less work out there. When the Oil companies aren't spending that trickles all the way down to the very bottom. It's just reality.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by BaronAmongYou View Post
    I can tell you with certainty, non-government unionized workers got absolutely hammered over the part 4 years in Edmonton.
    Understood. Unionized/government workers certainly weather these bad times much easier, though I'm pretty sure most of them didn't see any kind of increase in these times, so it's not like they were getting further ahead which they shouldn't in hard times. However, in good times, I can also guarantee those same people didn't see a fraction of the increases the rest of the population was able to experience.

    I guess it comes down to a persons preference if they are fortunate enough to have had an option. Security of union/government means smaller highs, and smaller lows. Open market sees larger lows but they also get to maximize much more during better times.

    The thing that bothers me is when either side vilifies the other without understanding their position. Most UCP supporters aren't biggoted red neck white nationalists who hate the LGBQT communites, and most NDP supporters are not just tree-hugging, oil-hating granolas that don't realize where the provinces economic success has traditionally come from.
    Last edited by bone; 04-17-2019 at 03:49 PM.

  25. #115
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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post

    The thing that bothers me is when either side vilifies the other without understanding their position. Most UCP supporters aren't biggoted red neck white nationalists who hate the LGBQT communites, and most NDP supporters are not just tree-hugging, oil-hating granolas that don't realize where the provinces economic success has traditionally come from.
    That's true; although most biggoted white nationalists who hate the LGBTQ community voted UCP and most of the tree hugger, oil hating granolas voted NDP (or they live in BC with me and voted Green )
    Kidding aside, it's important to try to understand where people are coming from. A lot of people in the middle get harshly pulled to the extreme right or left because of the state of our political landscape. That's why I was hoping the Alberta Party was gonna make some headway. I think it's important to have a lot of discussions not just one (from two sides of the fence). Most Albertans want very similar things.
    Congrats to Kenney and his supporters. They did what they needed to do. I hope they are good for all the people of Alberta for the next four years.
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    I don't like Jason Kenney. I worked out on the hill years ago. He's even more socially conservative than you think. But, Albertans have spoken.

    His cut to the business tax rate will be good.
    His eliminating the carbon tax will be a wash since selfie-boy will just implement his own and the feds will win that in court.
    His freeze of spending will reduce the deficit, but I am unsure the economy will grow enough to balance by the end of his term.
    Turning off the taps to BC will be crushed in court, but will do some damage while it is in effect and being litigated. Horgan will pay, so Kenney wins.
    A referendum on equalization will pass easily, but can't change the program. However the precedent is set that it does force the feds to renegotiate the formula. So, Kenney will win on that.
    Allowing teachers to inform parents if a kid joins a GSA will cause many to not join GSAs and lives will be lost as a consequence. Dick policy.


    At the end of 4 years Trans Mountain will be built, but it would have been built under Notley.
    C-69 and C-48 all depend on October, not Jason Kenney. But we all get to bash Justin Trudeau for a while. I'm okay with that since he's truly awful.

    I'm sad that the Alberta Party is over. And it is. No seats, 73 year old leader, no clear successor and no place in the TV debate in 4 years unless there is a defection. Its over.

    Finally the Alberta Liberal Party can die the death it has needed to for 20 years.

    Welcome to 2 party Alberta.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    I don't like Jason Kenney. I worked out on the hill years ago. He's even more socially conservative than you think. But, Albertans have spoken.

    His cut to the business tax rate will be good.
    His eliminating the carbon tax will be a wash since selfie-boy will just implement his own and the feds will win that in court.
    His freeze of spending will reduce the deficit, but I am unsure the economy will grow enough to balance by the end of his term.
    Turning off the taps to BC will be crushed in court, but will do some damage while it is in effect and being litigated. Horgan will pay, so Kenney wins.
    A referendum on equalization will pass easily, but can't change the program. However the precedent is set that it does force the feds to renegotiate the formula. So, Kenney will win on that.
    Allowing teachers to inform parents if a kid joins a GSA will cause many to not join GSAs and lives will be lost as a consequence. Dick policy.


    At the end of 4 years Trans Mountain will be built, but it would have been built under Notley.
    C-69 and C-48 all depend on October, not Jason Kenney. But we all get to bash Justin Trudeau for a while. I'm okay with that since he's truly awful.

    I'm sad that the Alberta Party is over. And it is. No seats, 73 year old leader, no clear successor and no place in the TV debate in 4 years unless there is a defection. Its over.

    Finally the Alberta Liberal Party can die the death it has needed to for 20 years.

    Welcome to 2 party Alberta.
    I'm going to be interested to see if your prediction about the end of the Alberta Party comes about. I'm not naive enough to think Mandel will be back, and I don't know that the move from 2% to 10% of the popular vote is enough traction to move forward unless they find one heck of a charismatic leader to take the wheel. Your points make sense, but it seems like there is a churn of the rise of a new party, the eventual unification of the Left or Right after the division created opportunity for the other, and then a dissatisfaction with the compromise that leads to the emergence of another replacement. In recent times, the replacements have seemed to be further out to the edge of the spectrum, rather than more centrist in nature, but I'm wondering whether we continue down the path of polarized politics or whether there is eventually a move to the centre - the fiscal responsibility with some heightened social action that I believe probably suits the majority of Albertans, if we can actually get past the name-calling and attacks and find a more non-partisan space for governing. Likely pie-in-the-sky idealism, but I hope that the pendulum swings back over time.

    It seems like the first order of many governments these days is to go in and tear down the work of the last one - Notley's gov't had promised to do it with oil royalties, until seeing the reality of the situation and not having a better solution. If we can't find ways to build upon legacies and move forward growing rather than repealing, tearing down and building replacements, the transition costs and exit penalties will likely continue to make things that much worth in terms of the value for the taxpayer's dollar.

    I'm with Hugoagogo, as a died-in-the-wool Albertan, I'm hoping that Kenney's government will be good for the province, but like a lot of Albertans (and Canadians) am nervous about it. With Harper, I was always confident that his personal beliefs on social issues would not be central to his policy platform. With Kenney, I replace "confident" with "hopeful".

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorth View Post
    I'm going to be interested to see if your prediction about the end of the Alberta Party comes about. I'm not naive enough to think Mandel will be back, and I don't know that the move from 2% to 10% of the popular vote is enough traction to move forward unless they find one heck of a charismatic leader to take the wheel. Your points make sense, but it seems like there is a churn of the rise of a new party, the eventual unification of the Left or Right after the division created opportunity for the other, and then a dissatisfaction with the compromise that leads to the emergence of another replacement. In recent times, the replacements have seemed to be further out to the edge of the spectrum, rather than more centrist in nature, but I'm wondering whether we continue down the path of polarized politics or whether there is eventually a move to the centre - the fiscal responsibility with some heightened social action that I believe probably suits the majority of Albertans, if we can actually get past the name-calling and attacks and find a more non-partisan space for governing. Likely pie-in-the-sky idealism, but I hope that the pendulum swings back over time.

    It seems like the first order of many governments these days is to go in and tear down the work of the last one - Notley's gov't had promised to do it with oil royalties, until seeing the reality of the situation and not having a better solution. If we can't find ways to build upon legacies and move forward growing rather than repealing, tearing down and building replacements, the transition costs and exit penalties will likely continue to make things that much worth in terms of the value for the taxpayer's dollar.

    I'm with Hugoagogo, as a died-in-the-wool Albertan, I'm hoping that Kenney's government will be good for the province, but like a lot of Albertans (and Canadians) am nervous about it. With Harper, I was always confident that his personal beliefs on social issues would not be central to his policy platform. With Kenney, I replace "confident" with "hopeful".
    Mate,

    I would be VERY happy to see the Alberta Party stay around. Circumstances were unfortunate. 2% to 10% isn't anything to scoff at. Mandel did a terrific job. But Alberta hates Justin Trudeau. I get it. They don't hate Notley. They hate Trudeau. The election was about THAT.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    To put things into perspective,,,,,


    What happens when you give politicians Viagra?

    They get taller.
    WALTER IS MY HERO!!

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    Re: Alberta Election 2019

    What gets lost by NDP supporters and all their hatred right now is back in 2015, they didn't have the popular vote. The NDP had 40.57%, PC's had 27.8 and the Wildrose had 24.2. Add them together and that's 52% of Albertans voted for a Conservative type party. The PC's and Wildrose differed on a few things but they weren't that far off. So whether you voted Wildrose or PC at the time, you were voting for a Conservative government The Conservative vote got split and the NDP went up the middle.

    I look at Red Deer, my turf where both North and South were NDP in 2015.

    North:
    NDP: 4973 votes
    WR: 4167
    PC: 3833

    South:
    NDP: 6361 votes
    WR: 4451
    PC: 4969

    Total Conservative type vote = 9420. So they crushed the NDP. Back in 2015, I heard lots of people saying they were torn between Wildrose or PC and for lots it came down to which candidate they liked a little bit better.

    I watched the election coverage and paid attention to what MLA's in Calgary got who the NDP supporters are really pissed at. NDP candidates in Calgary in 2015 were getting like 30 something percent and won by like 1%. So the NDP candidate would get 35% the PC, 34% and the Wildrose 30%. Combine the Conservative type vote and the NDP got destroyed.

    Even this years vote. UCP got 55.16% of the popular vote, NDP 32.19%. So the UCP was up 3% the NDP dropped 8 but the Alberta party show up almost 7%. So in reality, the election results weren't much different from 2015, it's just there was no way for the NDP to sneak in again.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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