Just seemed like the biggest no brainer thing to do. How the Esks former apparently strong in marketing Pres couldn't figure that out just shows how much on an idiot he was.Originally Posted by tigerdar
Legendary Bear hater
Just seemed like the biggest no brainer thing to do. How the Esks former apparently strong in marketing Pres couldn't figure that out just shows how much on an idiot he was.
Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.
Perennial Standout
I would call that an insult to idiots everywhere to be compared to that dillweed.
In Rod we trust
Nothing is trivial...
As someone that puts dill on almost everything...I find that offensive!
Well, gentlemen, by all means, I think we ought to have an introspective moment of silence for poor old Tin-Tin.
Perennial Standout
Fine then he's just a weed and not the good kind that I smoke to make a Calgary-Sask game bearable and not a dandelion cause those feed the bees, he's like that prickly weed you need gloves on to pull out of your garden. Len PrickWeed RhodesAs someone that puts dill on almost everything...I find that offensive!
In Rod we trust
The Ayatolla of Rye & Cola
Super Moderator, 2009 V-Bookie Champ
This is a massive move in-season to try and stem the hemorrhaging attendance bleed out. They must be worried, because if this was planned it would have been marketed in the offseason
I hit them as hard as I could on the mouth right from the start of the game so they were thinking this was going to be a long day. Sooner or later one of us had to quit. And it wasn't going to be me.
- Dan Kepley
Perennial Standout
yep agreed 100%
In Rod we trust
Perennial Standout
agreed, even Sask has had attendance dip this year so far with crowds of 30k and 29k which is 3 or 4k away from a sell out. Attendance is a league wide issue but I would be willing to bet that we have the biggest drop.
#PizStrong
Die Hard
Yeah I was pretty disappointed with the crowds for the first two games, the good thing though is that I think this team is for real, and once people start seeing that it might help our attendance ramp up again after labour day when things start getting serious.
Incumbent Starter
They likely under-estimated how much damage Rhodes decisions have impacted the fan base. The last two seasons were propped up greatly on the strength of a potential home Grey Cup game. I had called to cancel my seats two years ago and was convinced to stay because an announcement was coming in a few days, which I assumed correctly to be that Cup was coming and the team had potential to play in it. With that out of the way and the fact the team blew it in a Grey Cup hosting season, a lot of people that were just holding on finally left and it will take at least a few years to repair that damage.
Hopefully the next step is a reduced season ticket packages for first time buyers. If people get into a season seat and the team is stable and successful at the same time, it's a recipe for sustainability.
Last edited by bone; 07-08-2019 at 02:39 PM.
"It's chaos, be kind"
2012 & 2018 V-Bookie Champ
We have added ���� OL Eric Lofton to our practice roster. pic.twitter.com/4hR6bTDEd1
— Edmonton Eskimos (@EdmontonEsks) July 8, 2019
Lofton played a few games for Ottawa in 2017-18 and I believe he was at Lions training camp this year. He played both right guard and (mainly) right tackle in college. Perhaps he challenges Kelly for that spot?
Last edited by Hugoagogo; 07-08-2019 at 02:52 PM.
"No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie
Perennial Standout
Nice to see we are addressing the lack of depth on the oline. He was with Ottawa and had a cup of coffee with BC Lions. Played both G & OT in college.
Legendary Bear hater
I see on the Esks website front page. $5.25 Miller lite and $2.25 hotdogs. On top of their $22 tickets. Not to toot my own horn but I said the exact things last year. They must be following my posts. Maybe I should be sending them an invoice for my services.
Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.
The Empire Struck Back
What's amazing is how obvious it was. Having an extra 5k people in at $20 a pop is an extra $100k before they spend a dime in the stadium for the cost of..... nothing.
I suppose outside of having enough staff in attendance and concessions available which *has* been a problem at many games when they were consistently getting 40K+
"This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.
Superbowl Champs 2013.
Nothing is trivial...
My 9 year old could challenge Kelly for that spot.... Useless!
Well, gentlemen, by all means, I think we ought to have an introspective moment of silence for poor old Tin-Tin.
Perennial Standout
Oh you like tooting your own horn Q, which is fine as you were right in this case for sure.I see on the Esks website front page. $5.25 Miller lite and $2.25 hotdogs. On top of their $22 tickets. Not to toot my own horn but I said the exact things last year. They must be following my posts. Maybe I should be sending them an invoice for my services.
#PizStrong
Legendary Bear hater
If I was a 20 yr old U of A student who knows about the CFL because my dad watches and talks about it but I don't really follow it. Would I go to a CFL game when it costs me $50 to get in the door, I think it was $9.50 for a tall can of Canadian or Coors light and $6 for a hotdog? Probably not.
Would I go for $22 to get in the door, $5.25 a beer and $2.25 for a hotdog? I could get my ticket, 4 beer and 3 hotdogs for the same price as a ticket last year. For 3 hours of entertainment, that's actually a decent deal.
Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.
The Ayatolla of Rye & Cola
Super Moderator, 2009 V-Bookie Champ
It's also a continuing damnation on the BOD, and something they better factor in very seriously when picking a new Prez. The trust in this franchise has been eroded far worse then the ticket base.
I hit them as hard as I could on the mouth right from the start of the game so they were thinking this was going to be a long day. Sooner or later one of us had to quit. And it wasn't going to be me.
- Dan Kepley
Got Rid of the Kids....The Cats Were Allergic
There are a lot of factors. Rhodes' performance, bad weather, slow transit, high prices.
3.5 hour games, an hour each way to/from home. A 5.5 hour investment for $50+ all to sit in the rain watch a flag every friggin play and listen to the same hokey in game crap we've all seen a million times.
Doesn't exactly sell it self. Reducing ticket prices is a nice start, but there is a lot to fix. Not just in Edmonton, either.
"Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens
Perennial Standout
Will be interesting to see how much of an attendance bump this gives and if they'll disclose how many more actual paid admissions there are, as they are rolling out the free kids tickets at the same time. You would think that we would see a significant bump in attendance as the cost for a family of 4 with 2 young kids has significantly gone down.
#PizStrong
Incumbent Starter
Good point on the transit. They've closed a couple park and rides and it made it a lot tougher getting to the game with my daughter last time as the closest one is about 25 minute drive from home.
Replacing Burns with Eau Claire is kind of a joke as they are nowhere close to each other. https://goo.gl/maps/72HzkveSXV9pmLdk9
LRT is closer, but LRT lots are more trouble for parking options and the crowds getting in and out are a bit of a deterrent to people with little kids. And this year the time between trains has been pretty slow because of maintenance/construction work. If it's harder to get to the game that is a deterrent understanding there is no longer a reasonable option for someone to drive to the building itself.
Last edited by bone; 07-08-2019 at 05:14 PM.
Legendary Bear hater
That's how they got my family of 6 in the door. When they broke out with the $99 season tickets, my parents jumped at them.
The transit is really terrible to get to Commonwealth. At the end of the game, you have 10's of thousands of people converging on 1 station, going through the same set of doors. There are only 2 sets of stairs but can only be accessed 1 way. Then you head up to a skinny platform to handle 2 trains going in opposite directions. Way too small.
Last edited by Sectionq; 07-08-2019 at 05:24 PM.
Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.
Incumbent Starter
Same here, and I haven't left. That has to be phase 2 to this promotion, get them in cheap for the full year.
If they want to speed it up, offer up a cheap late season package for Labour Day onwards. Perhaps offer $80 bronze seats to get tickets to the Labour Day game onwards for new season ticket holders with access to early bird tickets for half price next season. Considering there is also hopefully a playoff drive in there, a game vs. Reilly, and a Roughriders game in that segment it would be a great opportunity to fuel passion in new fans. 3 of the final four games are even Weekend 5PM games which are kid friendly.
Last edited by bone; 07-08-2019 at 05:33 PM.
National Man of Mystery
2019 V-Bookie Champ
Let's see if it works before going too far.I see on the Esks website front page. $5.25 Miller lite and $2.25 hotdogs. On top of their $22 tickets. Not to toot my own horn but I said the exact things last year. They must be following my posts. Maybe I should be sending them an invoice for my services.
The $100k extra you arrive at has to be off-set somewhat from the people... maybe 1k of them, that were going to pay $50 and now get in for $20. You've got to get about 2.5 x as many casual fans if you're doing the tickets at 40% of the cost. While the consumer is getting better value to get a ticket, a few beers and a few hotdogs, the economics of the club take a hit. That only gets made up if they're reaching other fans and getting them to buy tickets that they wouldn't have bought before.
On the plus side, there are plenty on this forum that talk about starting their fandom or getting hooked as a result of a promotion - be it Knothole Gang, Save-on Tickets, Student/youth season ticket pricing, etc.
The opposing view that many pro sports teams have subscribed to for years is that you can't set the value of your product in the consumer's mind too low. That may well be a dated concept now, with the different access to entertainment compared to an era of TV blackouts and no internet.
The Empire Struck Back
Sure, it's not going to be a perfectly flat increase but you will absolutely get a net gain on it.
Last game I went to we walked up and balked at the $55 tickets.
We jumped on kijiji, missed the opening 2-3 minutes of the game and got in for $30 total.
And a lot of people won't want a general admission ticket either; it's just opening up other doors and other revenue streams and thinking creatively. Mindlessly raising prices year after year is only going to hurt things in the long run.
That's $50 they left on the table and it didn't impact our spending either way, it was strictly a principle thing of not paying $55 a piece for a game no where near sold out to set in the bleeders.
Last edited by PDO; 07-08-2019 at 05:47 PM.
"This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.
Superbowl Champs 2013.
National Man of Mystery
2019 V-Bookie Champ
I agree that it is a step in the right direction. I just want to ensure that we're not over-simplifying it either. Of course this is something that would've been considered in the recent past, and it was dismissed because there are risks associated with this strategy too. I think that the first two games have shown that now is the time to act - particularly the return of Reilly game drawing what it did.
I've been in businesses where we made decisions to raise our prices, knowing that we'd lose some customers, but ultimately make more profits by doing so. I've also seen instances where we've had enough competition to drive down our margins to the point where you're almost losing money by bringing in new clients - essentially subsidizing them in the hopes that they will recognize the superior service/product, but knowing that, "when you win on price, you'll usually lose on price eventually". If all we are drawing is Groupon fans - those that will come at half-price but never pay retail, then it carries risks that we're alienating those that are paying full price with little upside to the new fans we're bringing in.
To me, this is a move towards an investment in the fanbase, likely at the expense of short-term profits. Just like running a print advertising campaign, you can't place one ad and then wait, you need repetition to create habits. The Esks will likely have to keep up these promotions for a few years, hoping that people get in the habit of bringing their kids on the youth tickets or finding value in endzone GA seats on the cheap, and getting used to the other aspects that people view as sacrifices to get there (transit, traffic, parking, commute, food prices, beer prices, game day experience, etc) so that as the kids age out, traditions have been established that will continue to draw them back even when they're paying for seats. I would contend, particularly with the kid's club post-game opportunities on the field, that there are few opportunities to deliver this level of memory making experience for a young sports fan than $88 for a family of four and getting onto the field to be around players afterward. I would also contend that the highest price ticket in the stadium (outside of suites) remaining under $100 (ticketmaster) including fees is a tremendous value when compared to concerts or other professional sports (and other CFL cities in some cases).
As was pointed out earlier in the thread, will likely be a bust if they don't promote the heck out of it. Speaking in generalizations, the fans drawn to these promotions are more likely to be the ones you have to take the promotion to, rather than relying on them to find you.
I get where you're coming from - I've caught myself refusing to pay $6 for a used paperback at the Wee Book Inn because it didn't feel like a good deal... this for a book that I wanted to read. The money didn't matter to me one way or the other, it just didn't seem to be value. That is why this is only part of the approach. If they're just selling discount football, they're missing the point. If this dilutes the brand and feeds into the NFL-only trolls, that it's a lesser brand of football and poor entertainment (a view that I hear often enough from those that have been devoted fans at some point) then it could cause more erosion longer-term. This might get some more in the doors, but if you don't have some sizzle with their steak, they'll feel like they're getting served eye of round with a day old baked potato.
"It's chaos, be kind"
2012 & 2018 V-Bookie Champ
#Esks Coach's Show with Jason Maas Team chemistry - how important is it and how do you get it. #CFL https://t.co/R5xPTbiWzC
— Morley Scott (@Morley_Scott) July 9, 2019
"No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie
Legendary Bear hater
You love your team, you are dedicated and you see the value no matter what. I completely get it and it's great. But IMO I think if you weren't a hardcore fan and you weren't a season ticket holder, if you were just a young person with a free Friday night, you'd balk at the price to just walk up to a game. $50 just to get in the door and sit way up high is a lot. That doesn't include food and drink. To go to a game and drop close to $100 by the time you buy your ticket, get some drinks, have some food for 3 hours of sitting in row 70 is not good value. You could go to any sports bar watch the game on TV and it cost you less.
I used to be a season ticket holder as you know so I used to be like you. I went to the Esks games, it was part of my June - November thing and the cost was the cost. I am now a casual fan. I would like my kids to go to Esks games so my intent was to take them to a couple games a season. At $50 a pop to sit in crap seats, that's $200 just for my family of 4 to get in the door. That doesn't include fuel to get to the game from Red Deer. That doesn't include the cost to park to then take the train. That doesn't include the meals and snacks because for us it's a 7-8 hour day. So to take my family of 4 to ONE Esks game, we are pushing easily $400. This so my kids at the start of the 4th who are tired and border and want to go home early. I don't see that as good value and it has nothing to do with the money. I can afford going. To put it into perspective, I can go to a Red Deer Rebels game. It's a under 3 hour commitment. I am not paying for a tank of gas, I am not paying for 2 meals because we eat at home. I am paying 6 for parking instead of twice that in Edmonton. So we can go for around $100 AND be in good seats. I get that it's not pro sports and you pay more for pro sports. But as a family outing, going to an Esks game is not worth 4 times the cost of say a Red Deer Rebels game.
Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.
Perennial Standout
For an example of how this can go wrong, all one needs to do is look into the promotions that the Florida Panthers have ran over the years. Essentially they were giving the tickets away and had to stop as the paying fans stopped paying, instead grabbing the free tickets.
That being said, I'm still in favor of these latest promotions as it has an eye on the future fan, which we havent seen in some time.
#PizStrong
National Man of Mystery
2019 V-Bookie Champ
I admire what you did to get to games, but I am pretty sure that these promotions won't do much to get you back in CW. I don't sense you're going to go through the investment of time and energy to sit in general admission seats in the endzone. That is part of my point - they're addressing only part of the issue... it's likely a step in the right direction, but it can't be the only step they take.
They need to attract fans like you, but located in Edm and the surrounding area. They can't do anything to shorten the commute/time investment from Red Deer or Grande Prairie or Lloydminster. They can't do anything about the cost of gas. For locals, they offer free transit and now an affordable way to get in the stadium, and a kid-friendly pre-game... and seemingly, a competitive team so far. We'll see if that gets people in the door, we'll see if they can do something to engage them when they get them, and we'll see if they can hook a new generation of fans.
I'm not the target. You're not the target. Most of us here are not the target. We got hooked in a time when the options were different in terms of accessing entertainment - I'm hoping that they are successful in engaging and converting a new group of fans, but if you, an already engaged fan, don't think there is value in a $50 ticket for the game experience, it does beg the question of how likely are they to convert promotional $22 admissions into fans that will pay $50 to sit in what you term "crap seats"? If the whole point is to use this as a way to expose people and give them a taste with the intent of converting them to longer-term customers, they have to figure out how to get from A to B.
Legendary Bear hater
Agreed, you don't want to be giving away too many tickets but at the same time you have to make it affordable for people to come. Early in the season, what I quoted for the cost is real for what it would take to get my family of 4 to a game. For a lot of people dropping $400 for a few hours of entertainment is possible. It's not even for the best seats in the house with a good meal. We are talking way up in the stadium, eating fast food on the drive in then eating a mediocre, dry burger or a boiled hot dog that costs me 4 times what it cost them to make. It's a lot of money.
Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.
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