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Thread: 2019 Season Thread

  1. #781
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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Still I wasn't wrong

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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by glenvb View Post
    So...after all this criticism of Trevor Harris's offense and the so-called dink-and-dunk...

    Guess who's second place in the league after Mike Reilly for throws over 20 yards?
    Let's remember that we had a lot of people upset over Ricky Ray led offence as well. It's not always exciting but its effective.
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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    It's just a shame that the "effective" part disappears inside the red zone.
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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by glenvb View Post
    So...after all this criticism of Trevor Harris's offense and the so-called dink-and-dunk...

    Guess who's second place in the league after Mike Reilly for throws over 20 yards?
    This isn't meant to be a shot at any of the QBs in question, but in all fairness look at the rest of the league.

    Calgary lost their starter two games into the season.
    Saskatchewan lost their starter in their first game and have been using the first year starter.
    Ottawa has switched starters throughout and have mostly gone with a first year starter.
    Toronto has switched starters and.... well they're Toronto
    Hamilton lost their starter 6 games in.
    Montreal has been switching between starters due to various injuries.

    The only QBs to start each game so far are Reilly, Harris and Nichols. That likely influences this stat.

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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    This isn't meant to be a shot at any of the QBs in question, but in all fairness look at the rest of the league.

    Calgary lost their starter two games into the season.
    Saskatchewan lost their starter in their first game and have been using the first year starter.
    Ottawa has switched starters throughout and have mostly gone with a first year starter.
    Toronto has switched starters and.... well they're Toronto
    Hamilton lost their starter 6 games in.
    Montreal has been switching between starters due to various injuries.

    The only QBs to start each game so far are Reilly, Harris and Nichols. That likely influences this stat.
    Might be more equal to compare throws over 20 yards by team, instead of by player.
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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 56Parkies View Post
    Might be more equal to compare throws over 20 yards by team, instead of by player.
    Probably, but I also think QB experience is a factor in what the coaches would be calling for plays.

    I don't think the issue with Harris' offense this year has been as much the 20+ yard attempts though as they've been in the game plan. To me it's moreso that they haven't done enough 10-20 yard attempts. Particularly when they are 2nd and long. Though I don't have the stats to back it up so it may just be anecdotal. Furthermore, I don't recall too many of the 20+ yard attempts actually completing.

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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    Probably, but I also think QB experience is a factor in what the coaches would be calling for plays.

    I don't think the issue with Harris' offense this year has been as much the 20+ yard attempts though as they've been in the game plan. To me it's moreso that they haven't done enough 10-20 yard attempts. Particularly when they are 2nd and long. Though I don't have the stats to back it up so it may just be anecdotal. Furthermore, I don't recall too many of the 20+ yard attempts actually completing.
    Rick Collins says pardon me, as he had one in each of the last 2 games if I recall.
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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    The stat on offense that is killing us is red zone efficiency ( which IIRC from hearing on one of the TSN broadcasts we are either last or second last). We fix that and improve on the STs which appeared to be the case last game and we become a very powerful team over the rest of the season with the way our defense is playing IMO.
    ôRUN THE DANG BALL!" -Leigh Anne Tuohy character from the film The Blind Side

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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    Rick Collins says pardon me, as he had one in each of the last 2 games if I recall.
    Yes. True. Time to throw out the anecdotal. Turns out that it is all about the volume of attempts overall that is skewing the stat for Harris as Harris has 65 more attempts than the second most (320-255) resulting from them having the most possessions thanks to the defense.

    So I looked it up on the CFL stats, and it doesn't show every QB, just the 10 it qualifies as starters (each teams QB with the most starts plus both from Calgary).

    Among the ten starters, Harris is 10th (i.e. last) in percentage of overall attempts that are over 20 yards, 7th in percentage of overall attempts that are 10-19 and 2nd (behind only Nichols) in percentage of attempts that are less than 10 yards.

    However, he is 3rd best for completion percentage per attempt over 20 and number two in efficiency since he hasn't been intercepted in any of his long attempts and has the second most touchdowns resulting from the long ball as well. Actually he has the 3rd best completion percentage in each category.


    This was pulled from using the data included in https://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.ne...Individual.pdf
    Last edited by bone; 08-16-2019 at 10:15 AM.

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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 56Parkies View Post
    Might be more equal to compare throws over 20 yards by team, instead of by player.
    Challenge accepted (all stats heading into this week):

    In the 10-19 yard range:

    Attempts:
    1. Toronto @ 70
    2. Edmonton and Calgary @64
    3. Hamilton @ 61
    4. Ottawa @58
    5. BC @48
    6. MTL @42
    7. WPG @38
    8. Sask @37


    Completions we are tied for 2nd with TO @39 only 2 behind Hamilton @41

    In the 20+ yard range:

    Attempts:
    1. Hamilton @47
    2. BC @46
    3. CGY and WPG @40
    4. EDM and TO @39
    5. Ottawa @38
    6. Sask @35
    7. MTL at 32


    Completions, we have 16 which is tied for 3rd with BC and CGY, one behind Hamilton and 2 behind Sask (whos QB efficiency over 20 yards is 154.5.) Where as we are second in that category at 145.5.
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  11. #791

    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    This isn't meant to be a shot at any of the QBs in question, but in all fairness look at the rest of the league.

    Calgary lost their starter two games into the season.
    Saskatchewan lost their starter in their first game and have been using the first year starter.
    Ottawa has switched starters throughout and have mostly gone with a first year starter.
    Toronto has switched starters and.... well they're Toronto
    Hamilton lost their starter 6 games in.
    Montreal has been switching between starters due to various injuries.

    The only QBs to start each game so far are Reilly, Harris and Nichols. That likely influences this stat.
    I agree with what your saying but I think the point is that from reading this board you wouldn’t have thought that Harris has gone down field 39 times this season.

    Now Reilly was ahead by 9 going into the week I believe so it’s possible there would have been a few QBs in between Harris/Nichols (who are basically tied) and Reilly if not for all the injuries because 9 attempts on a stat like this is a pretty wide margin.

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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    Challenge accepted (all stats heading into this week):

    In the 10-19 yard range:

    Attempts:
    1. Toronto @ 70
    2. Edmonton and Calgary @64
    3. Hamilton @ 61
    4. Ottawa @58
    5. BC @48
    6. MTL @42
    7. WPG @38
    8. Sask @37


    Completions we are tied for 2nd with TO @39 only 2 behind Hamilton @41

    In the 20+ yard range:

    Attempts:
    1. Hamilton @47
    2. BC @46
    3. CGY and WPG @40
    4. EDM and TO @39
    5. Ottawa @38
    6. Sask @35
    7. MTL at 32


    Completions, we have 16 which is tied for 3rd with BC and CGY, one behind Hamilton and 2 behind Sask (whos QB efficiency over 20 yards is 154.5.) Where as we are second in that category at 145.5.
    Thanks Looner, so even looking at the overall team numbers, by percentage of attempts, it shows that Edm has the least attempts beyond 20, 6th most 10-19 yards and 3rd most less than 10. Considering their efficiency past 20 yards, hopefully they are saving more long plays for as the season progresses.

    https://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.ne...eek-9-Team.pdf
    Last edited by bone; 08-16-2019 at 10:48 AM.

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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Yes, I agree with Ben. The reason I raised the stat in the first place is that I think the story of Trevor Harris never going deep is exaggerated. He's not the gunslinger that Reilly is, but it's not like he's near-sighted either.
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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by glenvb View Post
    Yes, I agree with Ben. The reason I raised the stat in the first place is that I think the story of Trevor Harris never going deep is exaggerated. He's not the gunslinger that Reilly is, but it's not like he's near-sighted either.
    but he doesn't hold the ball as long as Reilly does either which results in more sacks for Mike (this year) or having to run for his life (previous years) so alot is just different styles
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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Interesting interview with Lolley...https://www.cfl.ca/2019/08/16/oleary...small-details/
    ôRUN THE DANG BALL!" -Leigh Anne Tuohy character from the film The Blind Side

    "Next time, take a case of Pil into the huddle. If you don't get a beer, get the hell off the field!" -New special teams coach for the Riders

    "When the Eskimos are out on defense it looks like there are two or three number 47s out there." -Duane Ford

    "...I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I enjoy the banter though ..." -Looner

  16. #796
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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    That stat they showed on tsn last night was utterly astounding re # of sacks given up by team.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by adb View Post
    Interesting interview with Lolley...https://www.cfl.ca/2019/08/16/oleary...small-details/
    We were lucky to get this guy this past off season, he has totally turned around that side of the ball.

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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Interesting statistical look - thanks to all for bringing forward pieces of the picture.

    Somewhat of a case where one can use stats to make a lot of different cases it seems.

    There is absolutely some warranted frustration on the red-zone issues and the drive-killing mistakes (short-yardage, fumbles, etc), and I understand the calls for more intermediate passes as well as some aggression in stretching the field at times. As much as anything, I think there are stretches where the offence gets in a funk, or gets contained by opposing defences where they lose some of that aggression (see first half of the game against Calgary). For the most part, we tend to not flinch too much and typically work our way through it, though the red zone struggles are my biggest concern with this team (well above STs) over the long-term. It is absolutely a case of trade-offs, as we're getting more possessions, more plays, more time of possession, less sacks, but we're also exposed to the risks of the ball control offence - eventually, you're going to have two incompletions in a row and be punting. A healthy and productive CJ Gable makes a world of difference for this offence. If we can ever get our of our own way and eliminate most of the self-inflicted wounds, this team has the potential to be dominant.

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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorth View Post
    Interesting statistical look - thanks to all for bringing forward pieces of the picture.

    Somewhat of a case where one can use stats to make a lot of different cases it seems.

    There is absolutely some warranted frustration on the red-zone issues and the drive-killing mistakes (short-yardage, fumbles, etc), and I understand the calls for more intermediate passes as well as some aggression in stretching the field at times. As much as anything, I think there are stretches where the offence gets in a funk, or gets contained by opposing defences where they lose some of that aggression (see first half of the game against Calgary). For the most part, we tend to not flinch too much and typically work our way through it, though the red zone struggles are my biggest concern with this team (well above STs) over the long-term. It is absolutely a case of trade-offs, as we're getting more possessions, more plays, more time of possession, less sacks, but we're also exposed to the risks of the ball control offence - eventually, you're going to have two incompletions in a row and be punting. A healthy and productive CJ Gable makes a world of difference for this offence. If we can ever get our of our own way and eliminate most of the self-inflicted wounds, this team has the potential to be dominant.
    agreed in regards to bending the stats as inevitably if we raise our attempts above 20 up, our overall plays and time of possession will go down, putting more pressure on our D. Right now I believe we are taking the deep shots when needed and are having relative success with them as guys aren't sitting back on them like they are with guys who go deep a lot.
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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    agreed in regards to bending the stats as inevitably if we raise our attempts above 20 up, our overall plays and time of possession will go down, putting more pressure on our D. Right now I believe we are taking the deep shots when needed and are having relative success with them as guys aren't sitting back on them like they are with guys who go deep a lot.
    I think we come back to the right mix of ball control and aggression usually (right for me anyways), but I do think there are times when we ignore everything beyond 15 yards, or we become susceptible to having it taken away from us too easily and need to make adjustments a little sooner at times.

    The irony surrounding the red zone issues is that you would think that a ball control, 10-yards at a time offence would be less susceptible to having to change in the redzone than one based on taking off the top and going deep, where that's taken away when they get in close.

    As highlighted by the angst that many Bomber fans still feel about Matt Nichols' performance this year, it does underscore that it's virtually impossible to please all of the people.

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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorth View Post
    Interesting statistical look - thanks to all for bringing forward pieces of the picture.

    Somewhat of a case where one can use stats to make a lot of different cases it seems.

    There is absolutely some warranted frustration on the red-zone issues and the drive-killing mistakes (short-yardage, fumbles, etc),
    and I understand the calls for more intermediate passes as well as some aggression in stretching the field at times. As much as anything, I think there are stretches where the offence gets in a funk, or gets contained by opposing defences where they lose some of that aggression (see first half of the game against Calgary). For the most part, we tend to not flinch too much and typically work our way through it, though the red zone struggles are my biggest concern with this team (well above STs) over the long-term. It is absolutely a case of trade-offs, as we're getting more possessions, more plays, more time of possession, less sacks, but we're also exposed to the risks of the ball control offence - eventually, you're going to have two incompletions in a row and be punting. A healthy and productive CJ Gable makes a world of difference for this offence. If we can ever get our of our own way and eliminate most of the self-inflicted wounds, this team has the potential to be dominant.
    Ah yes, the red zone. The biggest frustrations there for me isn't even the fact that they aren't putting up enough TDs, it's that they are turning it over. They've turned over the ball 4 times in 20 Red Zone attempts. 20% of the time they've come away with ZERO points. That's just unacceptable.
    Last edited by bone; 08-16-2019 at 02:57 PM. Reason: Bad math. 25% should have been 20%

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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Interesting note on Morley Scott's Twitter timeline. There was a transaction line on the CFL wire about Trevor Harris being released and re-added this week. Speculation is that it would be an extension or a restructuring of the contract. Wouldn't rule either out. I believe he signed a 2 year deal this past winter, but know that he's been very happy with the culture of the organization, and how much a part of the team that families are made to feel. Very important to him as his wife and child move with him during the season. Could also be a pushing out of some money this year to next year to free up cap room.

    Referenced that Sean Whyte had a similar line the week prior.

    I keep hearing that the guys that are here really want to be part of this - hence the commitment we've seen from Bond and Bazzie, who would have surely been roster players elsewhere in the CFL when they haven't always been in Edm.

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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    I presume that Bazzie was the healthy scratch(again) last night?

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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by writfiler View Post
    I presume that Bazzie was the healthy scratch(again) last night?
    yes
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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorth View Post
    Interesting note on Morley Scott's Twitter timeline. There was a transaction line on the CFL wire about Trevor Harris being released and re-added this week. Speculation is that it would be an extension or a restructuring of the contract. Wouldn't rule either out. I believe he signed a 2 year deal this past winter, but know that he's been very happy with the culture of the organization, and how much a part of the team that families are made to feel. Very important to him as his wife and child move with him during the season. Could also be a pushing out of some money this year to next year to free up cap room.

    Referenced that Sean Whyte had a similar line the week prior.

    I keep hearing that the guys that are here really want to be part of this - hence the commitment we've seen from Bond and Bazzie, who would have surely been roster players elsewhere in the CFL when they haven't always been in Edm.
    With out offence showing what it can be last night, I'm not surprised guys are excited about this team. I also feel the work Maas has done in building the culture of the team, is leading to guys making these types of decisions
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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    If Tommie is out, it is going to create some interesting decisions.

    Could go status quo with the impressive, but inexperienced, Saxelid and see him lined up against the likes of Willie Jefferson regularly. If Roh and Jeffcoat are both out, this may make the assignment mildly easier.

    Could make a double swap, bumping Colin Kelly to LT, and have Saxelid in at RT.

    Could make wholesale changes by putting Bond at Tackle and using Saxelid at RG.

    They didn't make multiple moves in-game, and that may be telling as to their plans with this, but with a week of practice and preparation, they have more avenues open to them.

    Given that the initial report was that Draheim was questionable to return with an upper body injury, I am hopeful that this isn't necessarily a longer-term thing, and perhaps it's even as minor as needing a few days early in the week (fingers crossed). Would be a huge boost to the depth to get MoD back next week if his knee is ready. Time has flown by on those 5 games and it's a credit to the chemistry of the O-line and the coaching that we've hardly missed a beat in his absence. As confident as I've been in Saxelid from the eyeball test, and as much as I've been a fan of Draheim, I wouldn't have predicted that this unit would have held up like it has through some key injuries.
    Life is Good.

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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Are we ever going to see SirV? I was excited when we got him during the off-season.
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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by glenvb View Post
    Are we ever going to see SirV? I was excited when we got him during the off-season.
    There have been no updates that I am aware of, that said at the time he was injured SirV seemed pretty adamant that he would be back this year.

    I would be surprised if we saw him before October.

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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorth View Post
    If Tommie is out, it is going to create some interesting decisions.

    Could go status quo with the impressive, but inexperienced, Saxelid and see him lined up against the likes of Willie Jefferson regularly. If Roh and Jeffcoat are both out, this may make the assignment mildly easier.

    Could make a double swap, bumping Colin Kelly to LT, and have Saxelid in at RT.

    Could make wholesale changes by putting Bond at Tackle and using Saxelid at RG.

    They didn't make multiple moves in-game, and that may be telling as to their plans with this, but with a week of practice and preparation, they have more avenues open to them.

    Given that the initial report was that Draheim was questionable to return with an upper body injury, I am hopeful that this isn't necessarily a longer-term thing, and perhaps it's even as minor as needing a few days early in the week (fingers crossed). Would be a huge boost to the depth to get MoD back next week if his knee is ready. Time has flown by on those 5 games and it's a credit to the chemistry of the O-line and the coaching that we've hardly missed a beat in his absence. As confident as I've been in Saxelid from the eyeball test, and as much as I've been a fan of Draheim, I wouldn't have predicted that this unit would have held up like it has through some key injuries.

    Some interesting decisions for sure. Agree that I hope Draheim can go on Friday as he has played well this season. Want to also mention that Kelly has impressed me this season. Knock on him over the years as been he not the greatest pass blacker but excelled in run blocking. Have to admit I’ve watched him this season and he been strong for most part of the season. Also noticed that he seems like a leader on the field. Kelly always helping guys up and giving a pat on the back to receivers (saw him do this to Daniels vs TOR). We talk about the Eskimos way and he seems to be bought into it!!

    If Saxelid get the start and we go with 2 international on the OL, I will be curious as how we adjust the roster? Do we go with 4 international REC and get Elliot on the roster? Can we activate Cooper and get him more involved? Full disclosure, I was one who was strongly wanting a international at S and no way wanted Hoover on the starting D..... but he starting to warm-up to me.

    My 3 cents...

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    Re: 2019 Season Thread

    Our OL will be greatly improved with the return of MOD and SirV (assuming he is healthy). That good news for the second half of the season. Also DB Hightower was playing at a very high level before being placed on the 6 game. He will boost the secondary when he returns. I would assume he would replace Hunter. Still got DB/LB Walker on practice roster who I thought had a great camp and did strong job filling in for Unamba.

    Lots of depth this season....

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