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Thread: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

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    Ban Me 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    It's been talked about in other threads but I feel it needs it's own.

    How on earth does the #1 D draw 2 penalties for 7 yards on opposing offenses COMBINED over three straight games?

    This isn't tinfoil hat at this point, it's nonsensical.

    This comes not long after The Athletic had a quote out saying that a neutral coach said Montreal would be a force to be reckoned with if their "Tackles were allowed to Tackle like they did against the Eskimos."
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Funny I mentioned something along these line somewhere else and everyone roasted me saying it’s even across the League.
    Well, gentlemen, by all means, I think we ought to have an introspective moment of silence for poor old Tin-Tin.

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Quote Originally Posted by boydo View Post
    Funny I mentioned something along these line somewhere else and everyone roasted me saying itís even across the League.
    It's hard to take the CFL seriously when it's so clearly playing favourites for whatever reasons. A game of this? Sure. Two? Maybe. Three? Get the **** outta here.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    It is a bizarre anomaly. However, if you are suggesting that either the league, or the officials themselves are purposely trying to influence results via unfair penalty advantages, I would disagree.
    Someone from another team might say that the reason the Eskimos are leading the league in sacks is because teams aren't holding them as much as they should.
    Holding happens on almost every play. The problem is the consistency of the officiating for the most part - and with that, I understand a fan's frustrations.
    Last edited by Hugoagogo; 08-05-2019 at 02:57 PM.
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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    It is a bizarre anomaly. However, if you are suggesting that either the league, or the officials themselves are purposely trying to influence results via unfair penalty advantages, I would disagree.
    Someone from another team might say that the reason the Eskimos are leading the league in sacks is because teams aren't holding them as much as they should.
    Holding happens on almost every play. The problem is the consistency of the officiating for the most part - and with that, I understand a fan's frustrations.
    I doubt any single team takes 2 offensive penalties for 7 yards the entire season over 3 games. The sample size is too big.

    Glen....... where art thou?
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    Glen....... where art thou?
    I'm here...I just don't know where I would find that info!
    Out of my mind; back in five minutes.

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    I doubt any single team takes 2 offensive penalties for 7 yards the entire season over 3 games. The sample size is too big.

    Glen....... where art thou?
    Calgary's offense took 1 penalty for 0 yards in the first two games last year. These things happen.
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    Calgary's offense took 1 penalty for 0 yards in the first two games last year. These things happen.
    That's two games, not three.

    Calgary OL has gotten away with murder for a decade though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by glenvb View Post
    I'm here...I just don't know where I would find that info!
    I suspect the CFL site isn't the easiest to scrape.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    That's two games, not three.

    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Then there was the Esks getting flagged for offensive holding 5 times in one game.

    There were 57 holding calls in the first 54 team games, an average of 1 per game per team.

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    It is a bizarre anomaly. However, if you are suggesting that either the league, or the officials themselves are purposely trying to influence results via unfair penalty advantages, I would disagree.
    Someone from another team might say that the reason the Eskimos are leading the league in sacks is because teams aren't holding them as much as they should.
    Holding happens on almost every play. The problem is the consistency of the officiating for the most part - and with that, I understand a fan's frustrations.
    Al Bradbury.

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    TSN

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    I'm not sure I agree with the conspiracy theory, but I admit it's not out of the realm of possibilities.

    The CFL is a league that is uniquely open to that kind of corruption.

    9 teams.
    Teams that don't have the kind of strong fanbases that allow them to weather being bad for very long.

    You could see the league (or its TSN masters) trying to manufacture parity. Edmonton and Sask have the two strongest fanbases.

    I could see the CFL giving Montreal or Toronto a little "helping hand".
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Look, I`m the first to admit that in this crazy world we live in, nothing is out of the realm of possibility. Having said that, if you truly believe that the league (or officials) are corrupt and influencing games, why the F are you even watching and supporting the league?
    I think it is easier for some fans to suggest that the refs are influencing the game results than it is to admit that perhaps, their team, on that day, sucked and deserved to lose. Sometimes the better team won. Simple as that. And when it isn't your team, you start to pick apart every play to find the flaws in the officiating and the league, and this reinforces the opinion that the league is biased against your team.
    Suggestion - visit other team websites after a loss. You will see the same arguments about corrupt officials and league ruining their team's chances to defeat us. It's just the way it is. You can't please everybody, but a win makes "less than perfection" easier to swallow. We need to improve on officiating and in particular the "eye in the sky". As a league, we must always strive to improve the quality of the overall presentation.
    Again, if you really believe the league is trying to influence game results, you are in the same category as fans from the other eight clubs that believe their team is getting screwed over compared to the rest of the teams. 5h1t happens.
    That is all I have to say on the matter. I apologize if I've offended your perspective on things but there comes a point where you either enjoy the game or you don't. When we won the Grey Cup in 2015, there was a lot less discussion about this stuff because we... won. Maybe we need to lose as gracefully as we win. Same goes for the fans of the other eight clubs.

    Have a good night everybody. Again, apologies if my perspective ruffled some feathers.
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    I'm not suggesting it is the league intentionally conspiring to influence games via their officiating, I'm just saying it looks like it is happening somehow. Perhaps there is some kind of cultural problem but they do seem to be biased against Jason Maas.

    CFL.ca has a breakdown of the penalties by group (offence, defence, special teams receiving and special teams kicking. To determine what were holding calls I went through the play-by-play for each game to find them.

    I am going to repost what I posted in the Calgary game thread as it seems more appropriate here.:

    It is interesting to note that the Eskimos offence had five holding calls against them in the game against the Stampeders. They were on plays: 18, 54, 56 (declined), 94 and 140 (declined). The Eskimos offence had 7 penalties against for 48 yards and the Stamps had 2 for 7 yards. The Stampeders offence had no holding penalties called against them. One of the Stampeders penalties was a play where two receivers were five yards offside and and I'm not sure ball was ever snapped.

    How is it that a team with a defence that leads the league in sacks (26 at this point) plays against offensive lines like Calgary's, Toronto's and Montreal's that have never held one of those defensive linemen once in the last three games?

    It seems pretty obvious that when Al Bradbury is in the backfield he is looking for holding calls against the Eskimos and roughing the passer against Calgary when they have the ball. He couldn't find any RTP's this game as the Eskimo defence was a perfect 0-0 in penalties. The problem is when the Eskimos have the ball he is not looking for RTP. The TSN broadcast did not indicate flags had been thrown on either of the RTP's that were called indicating that the call came from command centre. On play 149 there was obvious RTP that was again not called (Rule posted earlier in thread).

    The Eskimo opposition has only had 4 offensive holding calls against all season. There was one called in each of the first four games and none against in the last three.
    The Eskimo offence has had 11 holding calls against them so far this season.

    In no game this year has the opposition had more penalties or penalties yards against them than the Eskimos have had.

    HOW CAN THAT BE? The Eskimos are being criticized because their wins have been against vastly inferior teams yet even in those games they get more penalties than these "inferior" teams.

    The fact of the matter is the Eskimos significantly outplayed the Stampeders and the Bombers in the two road games. IMO Penalties that occurred but were not called cost them both those games. In the game they lost against the Als the three biggest plays they had were all called back on penalties.

    Go back to the game against Saskatchewan last year where they lost a challenge that was blatant RTP and cost them a chance for a playoff appearance and you start to think this is systemic!

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Quote Originally Posted by Esks1975 View Post
    I'm not suggesting it is the league intentionally conspiring to influence games via their officiating, I'm just saying it looks like it is happening somehow.
    It is the same thing!

    Look, if a number of non-Eskimo fan popped up on this forum and said that Edmonton was getting screwed over by the officiating compared to the rest of the clubs, I'd probably put a little more merit into the statement. It isn't going to happen because that fan thinks their team is getting screwed over, not Edmonton. We are (admit it or not) biased as Edmonton Eskimo fans. We are not right - we are justified as every Redblack fan who screams about officiating, we are as correct as every Bomber fan who complains about questionable calls; we are the same fans as those Lions fans who think that their team doesn't win the majority of calls.

    Any fan of any team can pull up a number of stats that support the theory that they are being oppressed by the league or "picked on" by the officials. We just happen to see (and support) our theories more than others. Stats are accurate, but in small or fragmented representations, they paint an inaccurate picture. It's not fair to question the integrity of the league when your team doesn't go 18-0.

    I'm logging out for the rest of the night, and I will not comment any further on the matter so have at it. I am trying not to attack anyone in particular in this matter. I don't agree with everybody's opinions, but I think we all have value with our contributions as fans. I just feel very strongly that we need to accept things as what they are. I truly believe there is no intent from officials or the league to influence results in CFL games. If you feel otherwise... it must be hard to respect anything about our league. I know if I felt that way, I would stop watching.

    Good night all - hope you all had a great long weekend. Here's hoping we pull out a W on Friday.
    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    "no lead is safe"
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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Quote Originally Posted by Esks1975 View Post
    I'm not suggesting it is the league intentionally conspiring to influence games via their officiating, I'm just saying it looks like it is happening somehow. Perhaps there is some kind of cultural problem but they do seem to be biased against Jason Maas.

    CFL.ca has a breakdown of the penalties by group (offence, defence, special teams receiving and special teams kicking. To determine what were holding calls I went through the play-by-play for each game to find them.

    I am going to repost what I posted in the Calgary game thread as it seems more appropriate here.:

    It is interesting to note that the Eskimos offence had five holding calls against them in the game against the Stampeders. They were on plays: 18, 54, 56 (declined), 94 and 140 (declined). The Eskimos offence had 7 penalties against for 48 yards and the Stamps had 2 for 7 yards. The Stampeders offence had no holding penalties called against them. One of the Stampeders penalties was a play where two receivers were five yards offside and and I'm not sure ball was ever snapped.

    How is it that a team with a defence that leads the league in sacks (26 at this point) plays against offensive lines like Calgary's, Toronto's and Montreal's that have never held one of those defensive linemen once in the last three games?

    It seems pretty obvious that when Al Bradbury is in the backfield he is looking for holding calls against the Eskimos and roughing the passer against Calgary when they have the ball. He couldn't find any RTP's this game as the Eskimo defence was a perfect 0-0 in penalties. The problem is when the Eskimos have the ball he is not looking for RTP. The TSN broadcast did not indicate flags had been thrown on either of the RTP's that were called indicating that the call came from command centre. On play 149 there was obvious RTP that was again not called (Rule posted earlier in thread).

    The Eskimo opposition has only had 4 offensive holding calls against all season. There was one called in each of the first four games and none against in the last three.
    The Eskimo offence has had 11 holding calls against them so far this season.

    In no game this year has the opposition had more penalties or penalties yards against them than the Eskimos have had.

    HOW CAN THAT BE? The Eskimos are being criticized because their wins have been against vastly inferior teams yet even in those games they get more penalties than these "inferior" teams.

    The fact of the matter is the Eskimos significantly outplayed the Stampeders and the Bombers in the two road games. IMO Penalties that occurred but were not called cost them both those games. In the game they lost against the Als the three biggest plays they had were all called back on penalties.

    Go back to the game against Saskatchewan last year where they lost a challenge that was blatant RTP and cost them a chance for a playoff appearance and you start to think this is systemic!
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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    I don’t remember any holding calls as blatant or game changing as the two on the same
    Play that enabled the TD on the kickoff after the esks tied it in the third quarter.

    For those of you with the game on PVR watch the kickoff return. Two different stamps Players have their arms wrapped around esks special team players a few yards apart preventing the Eskimo Player from filling the gap the Williams ran into. For all the criticism the special teams have taken the refs deserve it far more on that play than the players. How is the cover team supposed to make a tackle when he is five yards away from the kick returner and he has a 220 pound man wrestling him to the ground with his arms wrapped around his waist? Watch the replay and show it to the commissioner it cost us the win! If anybody here can explain to me how to post a screen shot from my phone here I will do it to show how egregious it is
    Last edited by mattdunigan; 08-07-2019 at 12:41 AM.

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    On looking at the game trackers to this point in the season here are the penalties against by team:

    Ottawa 46, Winnipeg 48, Hamilton 55, Calgary 55, Sask 57, Toronto 58, Montreal 60, BC 61, Edmonton 79.

    Here is the differential in penalties for/against for each team (negative numbers meaning more penalties called against the team than the opposition):

    Toronto +6, Ottawa +5, BC +1, Sask -1, Winnipeg -1, Hamilton -4, Montreal -4, Calgary -4, Edmonton -19.

    Here are the number of games that each team had more penalties than their opponent:

    Winnipeg 2, Sask 2, Montreal 2, Hamilton 3, Toronto 3, Ottawa 3, BC 3, Calgary 4, Edmonton 7. (There were 2 games with each team having equal amounts of penalties)

    Does anything stick out?

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Quote Originally Posted by mattdunigan View Post
    I donít remember any holding calls as blatant or game changing as the two on the same
    Play that enabled the TD on the kickoff after the esks tied it in the third quarter.

    For those of you with the game on PVR watch the kickoff return. Two different stamps Players have their arms wrapped around esks special team players a few yards apart preventing the Eskimo Player from filling the gap the Williams ran into. For all the criticism the special teams have taken the refs deserve it far more on that play than the players. How is the cover team supposed to make a tackle when he is five yards away from the kick returner and he has a 220 pound man wrestling him to the ground with his arms wrapped around his waist? Watch the replay and show it to the commissioner it cost us the win! If anybody here can explain to me how to post a screen shot from my phone here I will do it to show how egregious it is
    Not sure how to embed a picture from my computer but I assume that you are talking about the attached picture and the 2 players that I have circled. While I would like to blame the refs for this, if we stack plyers like we have in that picture, we are going to be giving up a lot of return TDs. esksvcal.jpg
    #PizStrong

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Quote Originally Posted by Esks1975 View Post
    On looking at the game trackers to this point in the season here are the penalties against by team:

    Ottawa 46, Winnipeg 48, Hamilton 55, Calgary 55, Sask 57, Toronto 58, Montreal 60, BC 61, Edmonton 79.

    Here is the differential in penalties for/against for each team (negative numbers meaning more penalties called against the team than the opposition):

    Toronto +6, Ottawa +5, BC +1, Sask -1, Winnipeg -1, Hamilton -4, Montreal -4, Calgary -4, Edmonton -19.

    Here are the number of games that each team had more penalties than their opponent:

    Winnipeg 2, Sask 2, Montreal 2, Hamilton 3, Toronto 3, Ottawa 3, BC 3, Calgary 4, Edmonton 7. (There were 2 games with each team having equal amounts of penalties)

    Does anything stick out?

    Wanna hear my supreme tin foil hat thought ?

    I've watched most games and I don't see us as a way more undisciplined team when compared to others. We are getting flagged for the same things other teams do and they aren't flagged for it. This all stems from Mic Gate and how much TSN is not a fan of Maas. During their broadcasts they love to repeat how undisciplined Maas and a Maas team is. They always have cameras on him waiting for the next outburst. We get screwed because they want that outburst so they can bad mouth Maas more. They want to stick it to Maas as much as they can. TSN are the CFL's overlords Tin Foil hate me says if TSN wants something the league complies. CFL is not in a position to say no with the money TSN paid.

    They have been a blessing and a curse to the league.

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Quote Originally Posted by Esks1975 View Post
    On looking at the game trackers to this point in the season here are the penalties against by team:

    Ottawa 46, Winnipeg 48, Hamilton 55, Calgary 55, Sask 57, Toronto 58, Montreal 60, BC 61, Edmonton 79.

    Here is the differential in penalties for/against for each team (negative numbers meaning more penalties called against the team than the opposition):

    Toronto +6, Ottawa +5, BC +1, Sask -1, Winnipeg -1, Hamilton -4, Montreal -4, Calgary -4, Edmonton -19.

    Here are the number of games that each team had more penalties than their opponent:

    Winnipeg 2, Sask 2, Montreal 2, Hamilton 3, Toronto 3, Ottawa 3, BC 3, Calgary 4, Edmonton 7. (There were 2 games with each team having equal amounts of penalties)

    Does anything stick out?
    What sticks out, and I know you don't have it in this, but it's not that the Esks are being *called* for so much, it's that their opponents *are not* being called for anything. If we wind it back to the Winnipeg game it gets even worse, because they weren't called for a damn thing all game until the Esks second last drive when the game was out of reach. Classic "evening it up" bull ****.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    That is exactly the shot I was talking about!!

    How were the two esks on the ground with men with arms wrapped around them supposed to make a tackle on that play?

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    The coincidences have been piling up for years.

    Some don't want to admit it....because it would mean that something they love is tainted. So it is better to dismiss it, and call it out as crazy tinfoil hat type theories.

    Meanwhile....the coincidences continue to pile up....


    One call here.....a couple there.....little things one way, and not the other. Never too blatant, but the subtle stuff is sooo easy to dismiss. Especially with something like holding, which any football fan already knows could be called on any play.

    So it's the odd play here....keep it subtle.... because after all, no lead is safe.
    Before you insult a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, when you insult him, you'll be a mile away, and have his shoes.

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Time is a flat circle.

    *smashed beer can*
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Through 9 weeks, the Esks are worst in the league in called penalties against with 105. The next closest team is Hamilton with 79, a difference of 26 calls.

    The average calls per team per game through 9 weeks is 9.6. That means the Esks have been called for almost 3 games worth more penalties than the 2nd worst team in Hamilton.

    We have been called for 44 more penalties than Winnipeg, the least penalized team. That is 5 games worth of extra penalties against the Esks.

    If that doesn’t look fishy as hell to some people, than I have no idea what to say.

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    What sticks out, and I know you don't have it in this, but it's not that the Esks are being *called* for so much, it's that their opponents *are not* being called for anything. If we wind it back to the Winnipeg game it gets even worse, because they weren't called for a damn thing all game until the Esks second last drive when the game was out of reach. Classic "evening it up" bull ****.

    Just checking the facts on this. Of the 8 penalties that the Bombers got called for and were accepted by the Eskimos 6 of them came with 1:35 remaining in the third quarter or later. A time at which the Bombers had a 28 - 12 lead. The Lucky Whitehead touchdown (which should have had two holding calls on) came at 5:06 remaining in the third quarter. The Eskimos only had two penalties called against them after the 1:35 mark of the third.

    Of the two Winnipeg penalties accepted by Edmonton before the 1:35 mark one of them was a time count violation.

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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    Quote Originally Posted by Esks1975 View Post
    Just checking the facts on this. Of the 8 penalties that the Bombers got called for and were accepted by the Eskimos 6 of them came with 1:35 remaining in the third quarter or later. A time at which the Bombers had a 28 - 12 lead. The Lucky Whitehead touchdown (which should have had two holding calls on) came at 5:06 remaining in the third quarter. The Eskimos only had two penalties called against them after the 1:35 mark of the third.

    Of the two Winnipeg penalties accepted by Edmonton before the 1:35 mark one of them was a time count violation.
    The Esks front 7, which leads the league in roughing the passer penalties, sacks and is considered the best in the league, has now not drawn a holding flag in 5/8 games.

    Nothing to see here.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

  30. #30
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    Re: 2 Penalties for 7 Yards

    There was one late in the game last night that was so utterly laughable. Right in front of the ref and the blatantly grabbed our player and never let go. It was beyond ridiculous.

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