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Thread: Eskies vs RedBlacks

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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    My thoughts on what I felt was a frustrating game.

    1. If you put the Ottawa long TD beside the Eskimo one that got called back, what happened to Boateng was 10x worse than what CJ did. Take theirs away or give us ours and it's an easier win.
    2. Someone else mentioned it but I'm also wondering if the gambles had something to do with the confidence in the kicking game, Whyte hasnt exactly been lighting the league on fire the last few games.
    3. D got exposed in the first half but balled out in the second. This is 2 weeks in a row that we have made decent half time adjustments.
    4. Would have liked to have gotten the ball into coopers hands a few more times, maybe in the coming weeks.
    5. Our offence is boring but effective and has something to do with the success of our D as they typically win the time of possession. Could also be reverse but they work together.
    6. Jones is the best returner we've had in a long time.
    7. With how good our D is, I dont mind gambling more than normal.
    8. A win is a win
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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    I recall Martese looking good when he first arrived too. I hope I'm wrong, but I think I'm going to win my bet with tigerdar. Hmm... what will his sig be?
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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    One thing I noticed last night is the number of times Harris had to jump to catch the snap.
    Well, gentlemen, by all means, I think we ought to have an introspective moment of silence for poor old Tin-Tin.

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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Quote Originally Posted by boydo View Post
    One thing I noticed last night is the number of times Harris had to jump to catch the snap.
    That's how Reilly hurt his ankle tonight, trying to retrieve a high snap.
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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Forgot to mention the Esks PA announcer must have been drinking....


    We completed a pass to Josh Johnson - whos a DB.

    And an Ottawa defender made a tackle. His name ? Jonothon Jennings.. who as we know is a QB.

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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Esks4ever View Post
    Forgot to mention the Esks PA announcer must have been drinking....


    We completed a pass to Josh Johnson - whos a DB.

    And an Ottawa defender made a tackle. His name ? Jonothon Jennings.. who as we know is a QB.
    Well Jennings did punt the ball so maybe he was playing DB as well
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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    I couldn’t watch the game live so I recorded it and watched it when I got home and I have got to say I might start doing that more often. It was so nice to be able to fast forward through the same three commercials they always play as well as all the banter between the talking heads.

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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    On multiple occasions I have pvr'ed the games only to have it look like three hours were recorded and to have the recording get to a point in the broadcast (this game was 1h 22m) to have it stop and ask to start at the beginning. I can't watch anything beyond that point. That sucks.

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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    I had the game recorded on another channel as well that I could watch past 1hr 22m. On play 91, the third and two, Ellingson could have just gone forward and blocked Evans before Daniels caught the ball and its an easy first down.

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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    My thoughts on what I felt was a frustrating game.

    1. If you put the Ottawa long TD beside the Eskimo one that got called back, what happened to Boateng was 10x worse than what CJ did. Take theirs away or give us ours and it's an easier win.
    2. Someone else mentioned it but I'm also wondering if the gambles had something to do with the confidence in the kicking game, Whyte hasnt exactly been lighting the league on fire the last few games.
    3. D got exposed in the first half but balled out in the second. This is 2 weeks in a row that we have made decent half time adjustments.
    4. Would have liked to have gotten the ball into coopers hands a few more times, maybe in the coming weeks.
    5. Our offence is boring but effective and has something to do with the success of our D as they typically win the time of possession. Could also be reverse but they work together.
    6. Jones is the best returner we've had in a long time.
    7. With how good our D is, I dont mind gambling more than normal.
    8. A win is a win
    definitely some valid points. not sure why Harris isn't throwing up the middle more? sideline passing gets you 2-3 yards. anyways we will take it game by game. firing on all cylinders will get us where we need to go.........GO ESKIES GO

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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Looked to me like the Redblacks were actively taking away the middle crossing routes. should have left more room on the wings in the first half, sort of did in the second.
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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Quote Originally Posted by glenvb View Post
    Looked to me like the Redblacks were actively taking away the middle crossing routes. should have left more room on the wings in the first half, sort of did in the second.
    without having access to the game tape and the play calling, its very tough to see why they were doing what they were doing but with how wide open Adej was in the flats, I would tend to agree with you. Our biggest issues in this game came on 3rd down conversions, had we been success full on a few more of those, this game wouldn't have been even close IMO.
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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    The Real Riders looked very well prepared. Glad we were able to adjust.

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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    I have not been overly impressed with the offense with Harris running it. I was mentioned by others. It's boring. I don't find it overly explosive and as we are seeing it struggles to score TD's. It can move the ball up and down the field between the 20's and with Harris's accuracy, it sure makes his numbers look good but once you get inside the 20 and the defense buckles down, it can't move the ball. I see time and time again that were are the short patterns, the intermediate patters and the long patterns and Harris with his "get the ball out fast" mentality differs to the shorter passes. This offense IMO relies WAY too much on the receivers making a guy miss to get yards or a first down. The short patterns should be the ones you go to when there is nothing else or you are in trouble. Otherwise your throws IMO should be 10+ yards. Throwing a 6 yard pass to Ellingston and hoping he can break a tackle to get the first down is stupid in my opinion.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    I have not been overly impressed with the offense with Harris running it. I was mentioned by others. It's boring. I don't find it overly explosive and as we are seeing it struggles to score TD's. It can move the ball up and down the field between the 20's and with Harris's accuracy, it sure makes his numbers look good but once you get inside the 20 and the defense buckles down, it can't move the ball. I see time and time again that were are the short patterns, the intermediate patters and the long patterns and Harris with his "get the ball out fast" mentality differs to the shorter passes. This offense IMO relies WAY too much on the receivers making a guy miss to get yards or a first down. The short patterns should be the ones you go to when there is nothing else or you are in trouble. Otherwise your throws IMO should be 10+ yards. Throwing a 6 yard pass to Ellingston and hoping he can break a tackle to get the first down is stupid in my opinion.
    There are issues with this offence scoring for sure, which I believe is something that followed Trevor from Ottawa. That being said, we had a gunslinger last year and only averaged 2.5 more points per game than we are right now. Would be nice to find a balance between the two.
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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    There are issues with this offence scoring for sure, which I believe is something that followed Trevor from Ottawa. That being said, we had a gunslinger last year and only averaged 2.5 more points per game than we are right now. Would be nice to find a balance between the two.
    We seem to tighten up in the red zone; perhaps we need to relax and get a little more creative. Wonder what we could do in the red zone with both Cooper & Gable in the backfield? That could throw of defenses.
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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    There are issues with this offence scoring for sure, which I believe is something that followed Trevor from Ottawa. That being said, we had a gunslinger last year and only averaged 2.5 more points per game than we are right now. Would be nice to find a balance between the two.
    It didn't have to follow Trevor here from Ottawa. It was here for the last year or two already.
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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    There are issues with this offence scoring for sure, which I believe is something that followed Trevor from Ottawa. That being said, we had a gunslinger last year and only averaged 2.5 more points per game than we are right now. Would be nice to find a balance between the two.
    I agree with you. The Esks last year relied WAY too heavily on the long bomb which while more exciting to see when it worked IMO is a bit too much feast or famine which isn't good but they have gone the complete opposite which is equally not good.

    I went to the game log. Harris has 33 completions.

    There were 19 completions that were for less than 10 yards, lots around the 6-7 yard range when they were tackled. Because you don't see the defender standing face to face with the receiver a lot, that probably means they were a 4-5 yr pass, the receiver catches and gets an extra couple of yards while the defender closes in to make the tackle. Their were actually multiple completions for 5 or less yards.

    There were 2 completions where Gable was over 10 yards(18 & 11) but given he's the back, my guess is they were either swing passes or where he was just behind the line, he caught a check down pass for a few yards and because is so good at making guys miss and can drag defenders, he turned them into bigger gains.

    There were 2 incompletes to Gable. Chances are that means they were under 5 yard throws because he is the back. You don't see running backs run a lot of patterns like a receiver.

    There were 2 completions for no gain.

    So if you add them up, that is 25 of his 33 completions that were throws of under 10 yards. I didn't count any completions at 10 yards or over. There would very easily be some of those catches that were 10 or 11 yard gains that were shorter passes but the receiver made a guy miss which if I remember, there were a few. Harris had an 82.5% completion percentage which is awesome BUT when you are only throwing the ball 5-6 yards and the DB is giving you 5+ yards of cushion unless you are just throwing the ball poorly, those are easy completions. I also didn't include the 1 pass to Cooper that was for 17 yards. I believe Cooper was also a short pass that he turned into 17 yards with a lot of Yac yards. Plus Green a full back had 1 for 11. So the number of passes under 10 yard is probably 27.

    To me that isn't play calling, that is the selection of the QB deciding to pick those very short, quick throws. I don't see every receiver on every play running 5 yard hooks and that's all that Harris has. So to me it's not surprising that the Esks struggle in the scoring zone because once they get inside the 20's, teams usually tighten up and aren't giving any team easy completions. It needs to change. They need to be throwing more 10+ yard throws not 5 and crossing your fingers the receiver can get you the rest.

    To prove my point. Adjei in 8 games has already crushed his previous career high in both receptions and yards. There is nothing wrong with Adjei, he's a perfectly fine complimentary receiver but he should be a 3rd or 4th option in your offence. A guy who when there is nothing else or as a QB you are in trouble, you look too because he's running those short range routes. He's trailing both Collins and Ellingston by 9 catches. That shouldn't be.
    https://www.cfl.ca/players/natey-adjei/159731/
    Last edited by Sectionq; 08-12-2019 at 12:20 PM.
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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    The offense will be reliable if not better in the 2nd half of the season. Even if Harris can't plant to launch the ball deep. If one team is going to limit Harris' effectiveness it would be Ottawa. They know him well. With this ball control, sure boring, offense you can rely on it to work. Reilly's gotta go deep is more entertaining but , IMO, not as effective.

    I'll take this ball control offense combined with our D over last years offense and a Benefeces D. The kicker is we have some studs on Oline that are injured - and when they come back... oooo Ditto for the D. This team could go far.

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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Here's a breakdown of the top 10 yardage QB's so far this year and their average per completio

    13.33 Vernon Adams Jr. - Montreal
    12.72 Cody Fjardo - Saskatchewan
    12.60 Jeremiah Masoli - Hamilton
    12.40 Nick Arbuckle - Calgary
    11.88 Mcleod Bethel-Thompson - Toronto
    11.47 Mike Reilly - BC
    11.34 Trevor Harris - Edmonton
    10.92 Dane Evans - Hamilton
    10.91 Matt Nichols - Winnipeg
    10.85 Dominique Davis - Ottawa

    Harris threw for an average of 11.87 last year - so, similar - ultimately, we knew what we were getting with Harris. The key comparable stat to last year that stands out for me is TD's vs Int. Last year Harris threw for 22 TD's and 11 Int. This year he is on pace for the same number of TD's but only 5 picks. I would think there should be more opportunities to take some chances with a deeper ball.
    Although I rarely pay attention to what Glen Suitor says, he did bring up an important point in our game this week about Harris having more time in the pocket than he realizes. There were a few situations in the game where he dished the ball off earlier than he should have, and as a result, didn't give some of his deeper receivers time to get open. Our offense has only given up 3 sacks this season. The rest of the clubs range from 11 to 29. That anomaly can partially be attributed to a solid job by the O-line, but I think much of it may have to do with Harris getting the ball out so quickly - perhaps in some situations, too quickly, thus preventing the potential for bigger plays to develop?

    Just a theory.
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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Interesting to see Reilly and Harris basically tied in this category. Probably has a lot to with the fact that Reilly has had so little time to throw the ball this year.

    Also not much difference from top to bottom. Given the different styles and our perceptions of them, I would have thought there would be bigger differences.

    Finally...who would have thought that those would be the names of the starting QB's this season? Been a weird year so far.
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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    I agree with you. The Esks last year relied WAY too heavily on the long bomb which while more exciting to see when it worked IMO is a bit too much feast or famine which isn't good but they have gone the complete opposite which is equally not good.

    I went to the game log. Harris has 33 completions.

    There were 19 completions that were for less than 10 yards, lots around the 6-7 yard range when they were tackled. Because you don't see the defender standing face to face with the receiver a lot, that probably means they were a 4-5 yr pass, the receiver catches and gets an extra couple of yards while the defender closes in to make the tackle. Their were actually multiple completions for 5 or less yards.

    There were 2 completions where Gable was over 10 yards(18 & 11) but given he's the back, my guess is they were either swing passes or where he was just behind the line, he caught a check down pass for a few yards and because is so good at making guys miss and can drag defenders, he turned them into bigger gains.

    There were 2 incompletes to Gable. Chances are that means they were under 5 yard throws because he is the back. You don't see running backs run a lot of patterns like a receiver.

    There were 2 completions for no gain.

    So if you add them up, that is 25 of his 33 completions that were throws of under 10 yards. I didn't count any completions at 10 yards or over. There would very easily be some of those catches that were 10 or 11 yard gains that were shorter passes but the receiver made a guy miss which if I remember, there were a few. Harris had an 82.5% completion percentage which is awesome BUT when you are only throwing the ball 5-6 yards and the DB is giving you 5+ yards of cushion unless you are just throwing the ball poorly, those are easy completions. I also didn't include the 1 pass to Cooper that was for 17 yards. I believe Cooper was also a short pass that he turned into 17 yards with a lot of Yac yards. Plus Green a full back had 1 for 11. So the number of passes under 10 yard is probably 27.

    To me that isn't play calling, that is the selection of the QB deciding to pick those very short, quick throws. I don't see every receiver on every play running 5 yard hooks and that's all that Harris has. So to me it's not surprising that the Esks struggle in the scoring zone because once they get inside the 20's, teams usually tighten up and aren't giving any team easy completions. It needs to change. They need to be throwing more 10+ yard throws not 5 and crossing your fingers the receiver can get you the rest.

    To prove my point. Adjei in 8 games has already crushed his previous career high in both receptions and yards. There is nothing wrong with Adjei, he's a perfectly fine complimentary receiver but he should be a 3rd or 4th option in your offence. A guy who when there is nothing else or as a QB you are in trouble, you look too because he's running those short range routes. He's trailing both Collins and Ellingston by 9 catches. That shouldn't be.
    https://www.cfl.ca/players/natey-adjei/159731/
    IMO and its just that an opinion as I never played pro ball. The best offence dinks and dunks, setting up opposing defenses, then catches them off guard with a bomb on double move. Kind of like the Daniels TD that got called back or the Ricky Collins play from the week before. Its an unexciting offence that concentrates on ball control, which helps to keep our defense fresh. The problem right now lies in our execution as we have left a lot of points on the field with our ineptitude in short yardage and kicking game over the last few games.
    #PizStrong

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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Quote Originally Posted by glenvb View Post
    Interesting to see Reilly and Harris basically tied in this category. Probably has a lot to with the fact that Reilly has had so little time to throw the ball this year.

    Also not much difference from top to bottom. Given the different styles and our perceptions of them, I would have thought there would be bigger differences.

    Finally...who would have thought that those would be the names of the starting QB's this season? Been a weird year so far.
    I don't know exactly where to look so if anyone who knows can post it, that would be great. But the amount of sacks, hits and hurries Reilly has had this season compared to Harris has to be insanely different. The Esks Oline has been pretty good this year and I think - someone please correct me if I am wrong - the Esks have been one of the best if not the best all season for the amount of sacks allowed and the amount of hurries allowed. Harris doesn't get hit a lot at all. Now part of it is Harris getting rid of the ball so quickly but credit has to go to the Esks Oline because Harris gets a lot of time so there really isn't a reason why he couldn't stand in there an extra second to get longer completions. I was worried when they lost Rogers but so far they have held up pretty well.
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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    I don't know exactly where to look so if anyone who knows can post it, that would be great. But the amount of sacks, hits and hurries Reilly has had this season compared to Harris has to be insanely different. The Esks Oline has been pretty good this year and I think - someone please correct me if I am wrong - the Esks have been one of the best if not the best all season for the amount of sacks allowed and the amount of hurries allowed. Harris doesn't get hit a lot at all. Now part of it is Harris getting rid of the ball so quickly but credit has to go to the Esks Oline because Harris gets a lot of time so there really isn't a reason why he couldn't stand in there an extra second to get longer completions. I was worried when they lost Rogers but so far they have held up pretty well.
    Interesting theory. It's like someone posted the exact same thing earlier in this thread
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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    IMO and its just that an opinion as I never played pro ball. The best offence dinks and dunks, setting up opposing defenses, then catches them off guard with a bomb on double move. Kind of like the Daniels TD that got called back or the Ricky Collins play from the week before. Its an unexciting offence that concentrates on ball control, which helps to keep our defense fresh. The problem right now lies in our execution as we have left a lot of points on the field with our ineptitude in short yardage and kicking game over the last few games.
    Well if that's what you think then Esks are doing it perfectly for you. As I pointed out the Esks 27 times threw the ball for less than 10 yards so the dink and dunk. Those are the ones I could easily see and that doesn't include a few passed where the receiver either broke a tackle or made a guy miss to get more than 10 yards. As I said, that style works great between the 20's which we see the Esks do quite well. Then when they get inside the scoring zone where defenses tighten up, they struggle to move the ball. The Esks scored 2 TD's and 1 was a 28 yard run from Gable. IMO while the dink and dunk is important, they need to mix in more 10+ yard passes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    Interesting theory. It's like someone posted the exact same thing earlier in this thread
    If I am being honest, I don't really pay much attention to whatever you post. But good for you.
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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    If I am being honest, I don't really pay much attention to whatever you post. But good for you.
    Someone needs a hug
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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    Someone needs a hug
    I actually don't. I am just being straight up and telling the truth. I usually go right past your stuff because I don't care to read it. So I didn't even see you posted similar stuff to what I said.
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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    If I am being honest, I don't really pay much attention to whatever you post. But good for you.
    It doesn't appear that you pay much attention to what anyone posts around here, you're too preoccupied with your long winded rants that go in circles all day to actually take into consideration what anyone else has to say.

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    Re: Eskies vs RedBlacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bobby View Post
    CJ tackled a guy. Legit call.
    I'm here late so it may have been commented on already, but it wasn't CJ that was called. Ruby was called on basically the same positioning that Ottawa got away with on their touchdown.

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