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Thread: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

  1. #181
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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitfall Harry View Post
    And in case you hadn't noticed, I said the the media isn't making Maas wear this. That means they haven't been attributing any fault to him yet for the team's inability to win a big game. Ever read 3DownNation? I didn't say Maas should be fired. And Reilly wasn't the, um, top QB last year.
    Statistically he was. Check the stats.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ben_the_eskimo View Post
    I know that's what you said and you are wrong. I could go back and find multiple articles by Terry Jones and Gerry M. last season calling for Maas' head. I've seen far more criticism of Maas from those two than I have seen them giving him credit for the offensive success we've had since he's been here.

    And yes Mike Reilly did lead the league in passing last year just like he did in every season that Maas coached him, and just like Burris did the year before those three when Maas was coaching him.
    And Ricky Ray the year before that, and the starting combination of Ricky Ray and Collaros (Ray got injured and missed about half the season) had more yards than any other team that year.

    Regardless of what role he has on a coaching staff, his QB puts up a lot of yards.
    Last edited by bone; 08-26-2019 at 10:21 AM.

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    Statistically he was. Check the stats.

    - - - Updated - - -



    And Ricky Ray the year before that, and the starting combination of Ricky Ray and Collaros (Ray got injured and missed about half the season) had more yards than any other team that year.

    Regardless of what role he has on a coaching staff, his QB puts up a lot of yards.
    I agree, he creates an exciting brand of football, is VERY passionate about the Eskimos and gives us a chance to win every time we step on the field. Mark my words, his grey cups will come and I want them to be in green and gold.
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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    I agree, he creates an exciting brand of football, is VERY passionate about the Eskimos and gives us a chance to win every time we step on the field. Mark my words, his grey cups will come and I want them to be in green and gold.
    Well said!

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    I agree, he creates an exciting brand of football, is VERY passionate about the Eskimos and gives us a chance to win every time we step on the field. Mark my words, his grey cups will come and I want them to be in green and gold.
    Yeah. I don't know whether he's got cups in him, but in his four years, a lot has happened around him and he's kept the team competitive for most of it.

    Year 1, the chaos of losing an entire coaching squad, but still had good players coming off a cup. Ended up 10-8, but wildly inconsistent. Won a playoff game.

    Year 2, chaos of late firing of Hervey and massive amounts of players on the IR. Ended up 12-6 being probably even more streaky than the year before. Won a playoff game, and was in a position to win a second game but fell a little short on an iffy call.

    Year 3, first year of stability off field, but something went wrong mid-season team limped down the stretch missing the playoffs with the best record by a non-playoff team in history (if I remember correctly). Rumors of some problems off field possibly related to the Hervey/Rhodes split up.

    Year 4, team gets completely blown up roster-wise and sheds itself of all but 3 players that had been around for the Jones/Hervey/Rhodes fiasco(s). Focus is on team building and so far its showing positive signs, but the team has struggled to win the bigger games, but have stayed competitive in them.

    All in all, I remember a lot Bomber fans wanting O'Shea gone after the first couple years, but they stuck with him despite starting 12-24 in his first two seasons, and still only having a .500 record overall prior to this his sixth year. He also only won his first playoff game last year on his third attempt and has gone 1-3 in playoffs. He's currently looked at as one of the best coaches in the CFL.

    Maas on the other hand has never had a season below .500 and was 31-23 going into this season. He also won his first playoff game and has gone 2-2 in playoff games. Some may argue Maas has had better players, but I'd argue O'Shea has had better stability for him to build from. In this his fourth year, he only has 8 players that were on his team in Year One (only three of which from the offensive side of the ball), yet the results have been pretty consistently decent.

    Yeah, I wish he'd keep a cooler head on the sidelines (he's improving) and some of his play calls buck conventional football thinking, but I think he's shown enough under the circumstances to keep going for another couple years at least.

    Also lost in all that is that he only had one season in a coordinator role before getting the gig compared to O'Shea' s 4 years.

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Don't forget in year 3 he had a QB that for all intents and purposes had checked out and didn't want to be here...
    Sorry everyone for not contributing anything to this board... My bad?

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by boydo View Post
    Don't forget in year 3 he had a QB that for all intents and purposes had checked out and didn't want to be here...
    I chalk that up under the rumors of off field problems possibly related to the Hervey/Rhodes fiasco. But agreed.

    Or based on this years results with Reilly, maybe he simply reached his limit mid-season last year.

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    So, today I caught this little gem. http://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nfl/...Wfg?ocid=ientp

    Of course Harris is denying it but given his performance trajectory in relation to his progressing age, it seems likely he's been juicing. During the game, the TSN talking heads attributed it to his doing yoga.

    Ya gotta love it that the CFL waits until a couple of days after the Esks play them to suspend the guy.
    There are better things in the world than beer but beer sort of compensates for not getting them.

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    I'm not a Maas fan so I hope he ISN'T leading this team as a coach.

    I've never been a big fan of his and his in game decisions are STILL questionable at times.

    Some of you who are backing him...IF we make it to the West Final and Maas runs into the same situation where he kicks a field goal instead of going for it again, will you still back him then? I'm asking because to me, that shows he isn't learning a damn thing.

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtuck09 View Post
    I'm not a Maas fan so I hope he ISN'T leading this team as a coach.

    I've never been a big fan of his and his in game decisions are STILL questionable at times.

    Some of you who are backing him...IF we make it to the West Final and Maas runs into the same situation where he kicks a field goal instead of going for it again, will you still back him then? I'm asking because to me, that shows he isn't learning a damn thing.
    Many of us have backed it when he's done it in season, so probably.

    The goofiest part about the one during Western Final is he didn't have defense you could rely on for a two and out back then so it was a low percentage play and he could have tied it on that series so the odds were basically a wash.

    With their defense this year, I'd think it's a decent percentage decision. Last time he did it, it worked from a time management perspective, but the receivers ended up dropping multiple catchable balls in the last series.

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtuck09 View Post
    I'm not a Maas fan so I hope he ISN'T leading this team as a coach.

    I've never been a big fan of his and his in game decisions are STILL questionable at times.

    Some of you who are backing him...IF we make it to the West Final and Maas runs into the same situation where he kicks a field goal instead of going for it again, will you still back him then? I'm asking because to me, that shows he isn't learning a damn thing.
    And it that scenario happens and his QB passes for a TD and wins the game, will you say he is a good coach now and become a fan?

    Let's not work in hypotheticals. It's a pointless exercise don't ya think?
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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    (referring to JTuck's post)

    I would, because I agree with the decision. Conventional decisions aren't always right, and conventional decisions cause you to lose games. This was discussed during one of the broadcasts this weekend.

    But the playcalling is a small part of why I choose to stick with a coach or not. If a team's down ten points near the end of the game, there are other reasons why they lost.

    I would think about long term success, team spirit, prospects for future growth. Right now I'm mildly satisfied with Maas given how much the Esks have had to go through. With a season or two more of stability, if he doesn't break through, you have to question if he's capable of taking a team through to the upper echelon. But right now, especially since he seems to have learned something from last year, we shouldn't consider changes yet.

    Teams that change their coaches frequently do not succeed.
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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtuck09 View Post
    I'm not a Maas fan so I hope he ISN'T leading this team as a coach.

    I've never been a big fan of his and his in game decisions are STILL questionable at times.

    Some of you who are backing him...IF we make it to the West Final and Maas runs into the same situation where he kicks a field goal instead of going for it again, will you still back him then? I'm asking because to me, that shows he isn't learning a damn thing.
    More than likely I will as what were the odds of winning even if we didn't try the early field goal? Odds are we would have lost both anyways but the time he tried it this year, he has the team in a position to tie the game up but our players came up with a case of the dropsies. If we hadn't have kicked the early field goal, we would have taken our defense out of the game and put the whole game on an onside kick, what are the odds of recovering those? I would assume very low.

    My question for you would be, if not Maas then who? Remember that if you fire him you, more than likely, will have an offensive drop off.
    #PizStrong

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by Mudnyereye View Post
    So, today I caught this little gem. http://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nfl/...Wfg?ocid=ientp

    Of course Harris is denying it but given his performance trajectory in relation to his progressing age, it seems likely he's been juicing. During the game, the TSN talking heads attributed it to his doing yoga.

    Ya gotta love it that the CFL waits until a couple of days after the Esks play them to suspend the guy.

    In a statement, Harris said he was tested March 1, July 2 and again July 12. It was after the third test that Harris added he was notified of the positive result.



    So I'd assume he would have been told of the positive test shortly after the July 12 test. Why the long wait ? Course being the CFL, they could have just gotten around to it now despite knowing about it for over a month.

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by Esks4ever View Post

    In a statement, Harris said he was tested March 1, July 2 and again July 12. It was after the third test that Harris added he was notified of the positive result.



    So I'd assume he would have been told of the positive test shortly after the July 12 test. Why the long wait ? Course being the CFL, they could have just gotten around to it now despite knowing about it for over a month.
    It takes a few weeks to do the test. Then, apparently, he appealed and they went to the second sample. A few weeks later it was confirmed, and here we are.
    Out of my mind; back in five minutes.

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtuck09 View Post
    I'm not a Maas fan so I hope he ISN'T leading this team as a coach.

    I've never been a big fan of his and his in game decisions are STILL questionable at times.

    Some of you who are backing him...IF we make it to the West Final and Maas runs into the same situation where he kicks a field goal instead of going for it again, will you still back him then? I'm asking because to me, that shows he isn't learning a damn thing.
    Since it was the right decision then I'm guessing he will probably make the right decision again.

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    More than likely I will as what were the odds of winning even if we didn't try the early field goal? Odds are we would have lost both anyways but the time he tried it this year, he has the team in a position to tie the game up but our players came up with a case of the dropsies. If we hadn't have kicked the early field goal, we would have taken our defense out of the game and put the whole game on an onside kick, what are the odds of recovering those? I would assume very low.

    My question for you would be, if not Maas then who? Remember that if you fire him you, more than likely, will have an offensive drop off.
    If we're speaking in hypotheticals then you don't know for sure that the offense will fall off.

    Maas hasn't shown me a damn thing that he is a capable head coach.

    And to Messiah, IF Maas manages to win a Grey Cup in his time here maybe my tune on him will change. But I'm not holding my breath on that happening with here running this team.

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtuck09 View Post
    If we're speaking in hypotheticals then you don't know for sure that the offense will fall off.

    Maas hasn't shown me a damn thing that he is a capable head coach.

    And to Messiah, IF Maas manages to win a Grey Cup in his time here maybe my tune on him will change. But I'm not holding my breath on that happening with here running this team.
    You are right that there is no way to gaurantee that the offence will fall off but when you are removing the coach that has had the last 4 leading passers in the league, I think its a fairly safe bet.
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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    so Dave Jameison on 1260 Radio mentioned If Maas doesn't win against Calgary he feels theres a good chance he's fired.....


    I cant help but see that as a mistake. Stop Roid boy or Scriveners ( yes I know my spelling is wrong ) and we win. I think no Maas would be worse for the Esks. IMO the players do love playing for him - correct me if wrong. Game plan for running QB, screens - things we have issues with and I feel the outcome for a couple games are different.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    You are right that there is no way to gaurantee that the offence will fall off but when you are removing the coach that has had the last 4 leading passers in the league, I think its a fairly safe bet.
    and on pace for another one.

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    You are right that there is no way to gaurantee that the offence will fall off but when you are removing the coach that has had the last 4 leading passers in the league, I think its a fairly safe bet.
    Last 5, if you include Ricky Ray in 2014, when Maas was the QB coach.
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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    I just do not understand where the "fire Maas" people are coming from??? We have the #1 offense, the #1 defense, and a winning record. Do we have troubles in the red zone sometimes... yeah. Do we take some penalties at inopportune times... sure (so does every team with young starters). Ultimately though, those are small things that can be fixed. You guys really want to blow up the whole thing and start all over??? Look at how that turned out for BC or Toronto. IMO, starting all over again just means another 3 years of rookie coaching mistakes just to get back to the point we are at now.
    Is it game day yet?????

  21. #201

    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    I hope JM is the coach here the next decade and TSN is bush for pushing the narrative that he's undisciplined because they don't like him.
    Absolutely!

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by TeqEEla View Post
    I just do not understand where the "fire Maas" people are coming from??? We have the #1 offense, the #1 defense, and a winning record. Do we have troubles in the red zone sometimes... yeah. Do we take some penalties at inopportune times... sure (so does every team with young starters). Ultimately though, those are small things that can be fixed. You guys really want to blow up the whole thing and start all over??? Look at how that turned out for BC or Toronto. IMO, starting all over again just means another 3 years of rookie coaching mistakes just to get back to the point we are at now.
    inability to win against the good teams ( win, cal etc) is what Jamieson was hinting at. I plan on listening to the repeat broadcast later today. My coworker told me about it as I wasn't in the office at the time. But Jamieson isn't a nobody either. Even if its "he feels"



    myself I think it'd be a huge mistaker.

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by Mudnyereye View Post
    So, today I caught this little gem. http://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nfl/...Wfg?ocid=ientp

    Of course Harris is denying it but given his performance trajectory in relation to his progressing age, it seems likely he's been juicing. During the game, the TSN talking heads attributed it to his doing yoga.

    Ya gotta love it that the CFL waits until a couple of days after the Esks play them to suspend the guy.
    And coincidentally he will miss both games against the greenwhites. Luck of the draw--I doubt it!

  24. #204

    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by Esks4ever View Post
    so Dave Jameison on 1260 Radio mentioned If Maas doesn't win against Calgary he feels theres a good chance he's fired.....


    I cant help but see that as a mistake. Stop Roid boy or Scriveners ( yes I know my spelling is wrong ) and we win. I think no Maas would be worse for the Esks. IMO the players do love playing for him - correct me if wrong. Game plan for running QB, screens - things we have issues with and I feel the outcome for a couple games are different.

    - - - Updated - - -



    and on pace for another one.
    It would make zero sense to make a coaching change mid-season right now. I liked what Brock did in the off-season but I would lose all faith in him if he made that move.

    Surprised Dave would say something like that.

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by ben_the_eskimo View Post
    It would make zero sense to make a coaching change mid-season right now. I liked what Brock did in the off-season but I would lose all faith in him if he made that move.

    Surprised Dave would say something like that.
    Exactly, mid-season would be stupid. Now if it is the first week of November and Edmonton proceeded to lose all their games against Winnipeg, Calgary and Saskatchewan maybe it's in the cards, but right now he's 0-3 against those teams where you could say each one of them were one or two bounces away from being victories

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by Esks4ever View Post
    inability to win against the good teams ( win, cal etc) is what Jamieson was hinting at. I plan on listening to the repeat broadcast later today. My coworker told me about it as I wasn't in the office at the time. But Jamieson isn't a nobody either. Even if its "he feels"



    myself I think it'd be a huge mistaker.
    I get that losing on Friday was really frustrating, and you can point to this stat of 0-3 against "good" teams, but I would counter with this: Were the Esks totally outclassed in any of those games? Were the Esks beat down in any of those games? Or were those competitive games that the Esks could have won had one or two plays gone a different way? We all know what the answer is.

    The Esks are a good team, but they are also a young team, both in age and in time playing together. Over time you'll get less of those mental lapses and mistakes that are costing us games, that is when those losses will start turning into wins. Firing a coach for losing close games against good teams, while outright winning the games against bad teams is lunacy.
    Is it game day yet?????

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by TeqEEla View Post
    I get that losing on Friday was really frustrating, and you can point to this stat of 0-3 against "good" teams, but I would counter with this: Were the Esks totally outclassed in any of those games? Were the Esks beat down in any of those games? Or were those competitive games that the Esks could have won had one or two plays gone a different way? We all know what the answer is.

    The Esks are a good team, but they are also a young team, both in age and in time playing together. Over time you'll get less of those mental lapses and mistakes that are costing us games, that is when those losses will start turning into wins. Firing a coach for losing close games against good teams, while outright winning the games against bad teams is lunacy.
    That's another fact that seems lost on many. The only game against the lesser teams that wasn't won comfortably was the Ottawa game because of the crazy amount of turnovers on 3rd down gambles.

    Some may also consider the Montreal games as such, but by my eye, the Esks controlled game 1 handily, let the foot off the gas for a couple minutes to make it close then went right back out there and finished them off. The second loss against Montreal (though I missed it being out of town) sounds like the only game where they truly played badly (well and maybe the Ottawa game as well).

    However, Montreal has beat Calgary and the 7-2 Tiger Cats (with Masoli in the lineup), and were in the game vs. Saskatchewan despite multiple injured quarterbacks until CFL awarded Saskatchewan the game, so perhaps they deserve their own credit for beating Edmonton.

    So let's hold the can't beat good teams narrative for at least a bit here as they have a few in a row coming up. If they lose them all, then the narrative has legs.
    Last edited by bone; 08-26-2019 at 04:20 PM.

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    That's another fact that seems lost on many. The only game against the lesser teams that wasn't won comfortably was the Ottawa game because of the crazy amount of turnovers on 3rd down gambles.

    Some may also consider the Montreal games as such, but by my eye, the Esks controlled game 1 handily, let the foot off the gas for a couple minutes to make it close then went right back out there and finished them off. The second loss against Montreal (though I missed it being out of town) sounds like the only game where they truly played badly (well and maybe the Ottawa game as well).

    However, Montreal has beat Calgary and the 7-2 Tiger Cats (with Masoli in the lineup), and were in the game vs. Saskatchewan despite multiple injured quarterbacks until CFL awarded Saskatchewan the game, so perhaps they deserve their own credit for beating Edmonton.

    So let's hold the can't beat good teams narrative for at least a bit here as they have a few in a row coming up. If they lose them all, then the narrative has legs.
    Like I mentioned earlier, the Esks are 15-26 against playoff teams under Maas, and that includes the ****ty Eastern playoff teams. It’s not exclusive to this season.

    I want to reiterate that I like a lot of what Maas has done as OC. I’m not sold on him as head coach.

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    My question for you would be, if not Maas then who? Remember that if you fire him you, more than likely, will have an offensive drop off.
    That's actually an invalid counterargument to the contention that Maas might need to go if he can never win the big games. You don't hang on to a lame duck HC just because fans can't point to a good mid-season hire.

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    Re: Eskies vs Bombers, round 2 - redemption day

    Well if Ottawa continues their downward play and could easily finish last in the east.... maybe Rick Campbell becomes available. Brock likes his players with a Ottawa connection... maybe he becomes available. Although o don’t see Ottawa firing him after a bad season.. if anything the GM is responsible for that teams failures....

    My question.... would you take Campbell over Mass?

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