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Thread: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Ethan Bear has been outstanding. His ability to wait that extra second with the puck on his stick to make a play is so refreshing. Every single other Oilers d-man would just pound it up the boards and give up the puck.
    "No one entertains the thought that maybe God does not believe in you." - Bo Burnham

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    I wonder what Bear would do if you put a huge chunk of money and term in front of him? Could he turn down $20,000,000 over 6 years? Would set him up for life. Also some risk for the Oilers there, no doubt, but winning on deals like that is something most cup winning teams have a few of.
    Nashville would have signed him by now.
    "No one entertains the thought that maybe God does not believe in you." - Bo Burnham

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
    Ethan Bear has been outstanding. His ability to wait that extra second with the puck on his stick to make a play is so refreshing. Every single other Oilers d-man would just pound it up the boards and give up the puck.
    Klefbom would like a word, but otherwise yes.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    Klefbom would like a word, but otherwise yes.
    Fair. I was thinking mostly about Nurse and Russell.
    "No one entertains the thought that maybe God does not believe in you." - Bo Burnham

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Klefbom-Bear
    Nurse-Bouchard
    Jones-Benning
    Laggesson

    I wonder if that could be your top 7 D in 2020-2021....
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    The slump will come. Holland's plan was to fill out the roster with 1 year deals with cheap players until some of the awful crap on the books comes off. If somebody grans a spot, then great. He was hoping that over the next 2 years a couple of guys from Bakersfield would grab spots and 1 or 2 of the fillers would work out.

    So far Bear has taken the step. None of those 1 year signings looks good, except Smith. But, remember, it's just filler until the cap space comes.

    Holland is looking at 2020-21 through 2023-24, not at 2019-20.

    'Bout time a GM did that.
    I think you are bang on. I think he's actually pretty much said that. You can't clean up the mess that Chia left in 1 offseason. My god, he traded a decent 3rd line center in Strome for a non NHLer in Spooner. Then followed it up by trading a OK bottom 6 winger in Caggulia for Manning who in reality might play 10-12 games in a season at best. For some teams, he wouldn't play at all. You can't recover from that in 1 offseason. The Oilers would have been better off if Chia traded those 2 just for picks. At least they wouldn't have have to have Gagner's 3.15 and Mannings 2.2 on the books.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Of course he could have traded Manning for Reimer at 50% retained, not signed Chiasson and not bought out Rej.

    He's also using his last cheap year of Darnell Nurse and now Ethan Bear and a lot of the money coming off the cap next year is pretty minimal given how many spots there are to fill.

    Peter was a mess but Holland still walked into 97/29/93/77/Bear all signed to team friendly deals. It's a lame excuse to say that he couldn't have done anything else, he chose not to and made some clearly obvious mistakes already that will affect next year (Chiasson, Sekera buyout).
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    Klefbom-Bear
    Nurse-Bouchard
    Jones-Benning
    Laggesson

    I wonder if that could be your top 7 D in 2020-2021....
    I wouldn't bet against that. Larsson is done.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    If Babcock would force it, I'd trade Larsson for Kapanen in a heart beat.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    When Persson comes back and if he can be solid which given his limited NHL experience, I thought he did alright, once Larsson comes back, I'd be looking long and hard at trying to trade one of Russell or Larsson. Gudbranson just got traded to the Ducks. He's got this year and next at 4 mill. The Pens kept no salary. If Gudbranson can get traded, I think Russell or Larsson could easily get moved. I'd take those 2 over Gudbranson any day.
    Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    The Oilers have now been out scored 11-1 at 5v5 without any of 97, 29 or 93 on the ice.

    Factor in that the bottom 6 are soaking up soft minutes and it's even worse.

    10 goal differential, as a rule of thumb, is worth about 2.5 points in the standings over 82 games.

    The bleeding needs to stop and now or this hot start will all be for nothing with the schedule set to toughen up throughout November. The way the Oilers bottom 6 are being utilized with respect to matchups necessitate that they at worst break even, right now they're getting their teeth kicked in.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    And Leon/Connor are have a 70% GF% when on the ice together which is insanely good. Have to feel bad for those guys. On any other team, they would be Stanley Cup contenders.
    "No one entertains the thought that maybe God does not believe in you." - Bo Burnham

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
    And Leon/Connor are have a 70% GF% when on the ice together which is insanely good. Have to feel bad for those guys. On any other team, they would be Stanley Cup contenders.
    And they will be. Just not this year.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    And they will be. Just not this year.
    Almost all of the bad money coming off will be taken by Nurse (6.5?) and Bear (3.5?).

    How confident will anyone be that the young players are ready to step up if they haven't proven anything in the NHL?

    Also important to remember that Bear, Jones and Laggesson will all require waivers next year and none would make it through. A good GM should know this and make sure he knows what those guys are and react accordingly and proactively.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    Also important to remember that Bear, Jones and Laggesson will all require waivers next year and none would make it through. A good GM should know this and make sure he knows what those guys are and react accordingly and proactively.
    How do you see that breaking down moving forward?
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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by stamphater View Post
    How do you see that breaking down moving forward?
    Losing any of them on waivers would be a fireable offense in my books.

    Gotta move Russell.

    Then need to either sell high on one of these guys for an F who can help *or* deal Larsson for an F who can help.

    No in between.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Russell goes to his knees instead of taking a step and there's one goal. Chiasson lazy as **** on the breakout and there's a second.

    Chiasson should go to the press box and I couldn't care less if he was sent to the minors.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Another game, another loss because Holland couldn't be bothered to fix the bottom 6. They've now lost 4 of their last 5 and are quickly wasting the hot start. Holland needs to get off the pot and do something. There's at least 4 players in Bakersfields that would improve this roster (Yamo, Benson, Maroody, Jones).
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    Another game, another loss because Holland couldn't be bothered to fix the bottom 6. They've now lost 4 of their last 5 and are quickly wasting the hot start. Holland needs to get off the pot and do something. There's at least 4 players in Bakersfields that would improve this roster (Yamo, Benson, Maroody, Jones).
    Holland is right, and you, sir, are wrong. Don't take the cake out of the oven until it is fully baked. If we miss the playoffs ths year because he let the youngsters properly develop, I'm okay with that.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    Holland is right, and you, sir, are wrong. Don't take the cake out of the oven until it is fully baked. If we miss the playoffs ths year because he let the youngsters properly develop, I'm okay with that.
    Though I sort of understand and agree with you on this. Will the ticket buying public continue to accept it? We're already starting to see it even with the hot start. I've already tuned out for two games this year which is more than I would have for entire seasons in the past.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    Though I sort of understand and agree with you on this. Will the ticket buying public continue to accept it? We're already starting to see it even with the hot start. I've already tuned out for two games this year which is more than I would have for entire seasons in the past.
    For sure. slamming Holland because he didn't get the bottom 6 "fixed" misses the fact that Holland's "fix" is one that requires the youngsters to develop properly and on making smart moves for his hockey team that don't mortgage the future.

    It doesn't matter one god damned bit that they have Sekera on the books because he saved $3M in cap space by buying his perpertually injured ass out.

    If Jurco, Sheahan, Haas, Russel, Archibald, Nygard and Granlund don't work out it doesn't matter because they are all gone at the end of the year. They were only filler anyway.

    Holland's plan is to fill roster spots with guys from Bakersfield when they are ready and not before, and fill out the rest of the roster with fillers. If 1 or two guys earns a 2-4 year contract then great. You get 3-4 guys from Bakersfield in the next 2-3 years and 2-3 of these roster fillers work out. Then you can add some sensible pieces in free agency.

    $15M comes off the books at season's end. More than $11M the year after.

    At the end of this year you have to pay Nurse, Benning and Bear new RFA deals. At the deadline next year you have to have decided if 29 is a W or a C. If he's W you have to pay 93. If he's a C 93 gets moved because you're not going to pay him $7M to be a 3rd line C.
    Lots of pieces in play with loads more room to maneuver.
    Last edited by Deathsdoorstep; 10-30-2019 at 05:38 PM.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    Holland is right, and you, sir, are wrong. Don't take the cake out of the oven until it is fully baked. If we miss the playoffs ths year because he let the youngsters properly develop, I'm okay with that.
    Still waiting for the list of guys the Oilers ruined by bringing them up too early.

    100 AHL games is more than enough and there's a slew of information proving it.

    If these kids are anything their prime by *22*. Again, a slew of information proving it.

    Also, what do you propose the Oilers do next September when Lagesson, Jones and Bear all require waivers? As will Persson.

    Benning, Nurse, Larsson, Russell, Klefbom.

    How many D can we carry?

    I'm not screaming to bring up Bouchard, I'm saying bring up 23 year old Lagesson (and play him), bring up 22 year old Caleb Jones, bring up 22 year old Cooper Maroody, bring up 21 year olds Benson and Yamamoto.

    Again, these aren't "kids."

    These are guys that are damn near entering or already in (!) the prime of their careers.
    Last edited by PDO; 10-30-2019 at 07:06 PM.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    I would really like to know how the hell Treliving thought trading Neal for Lucic was a good deal!

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    "We want to qualify for the playoffs, that's the goal" - Ken Holland
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    We saw the danger of Mike Smith's puck handling against LA. And tonight we saw the positive side because Neal's goal does not occur if not for Smith's fantastic play.
    Quote from Inquiring Mind:

    Of course stamphater is sacred... we all worship the ground he walks on.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by stamphater View Post
    We saw the danger of Mike Smith's puck handling against LA. And tonight we saw the positive side because Neal's goal does not occur if not for Smith's fantastic play.
    1GF 4GA by my count.

    I'd bet a hundo RNH requested Khaira be his winger.

    Draisatl might be a top 5 *player* in the league.

    You can't miss the playoffs with two top five players. You just can't. It's not OK.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    1GF 4GA by my count.

    I'd bet a hundo RNH requested Khaira be his winger.

    Draisatl might be a top 5 *player* in the league.

    You can't miss the playoffs with two top five players. You just can't. It's not OK.
    You'd better brace yourself, mate. They are going to miss the playoffs. But it will be for the last time in a decade.

    Mind you, at the half way point in the season it is entirely possible that Holland makes some moves.

    Adam Larsson is done as an Oiler. I think Kris Russell won't be here at the deadline either. At that point they have to bring guys up to finish the season. If Lagesson and Jones are ready to play in the NHL in January, you may well see them. And that's the beauty of Holland's plan. If they are ready then you've got 3 guys from Bakersfield already and another next year. That way you don't need to make stupid moves or waste cap space on over-paid free agents. But keeping them down in Bakersfield right now is the right move, mate.

    Bear is up with the big club permanently now. He'll get a one-way deal.

    Of course it is entirely possible that I'm wrong and the Oilers make the playoffs. The average number of points in the last 4 seasons required to make the playoffs in the west is 92. The Oilers have 19 and would therefore need 73 more points in 68 games. That's just a hair above .500 the rest of the way. It's possible. I just don't think so. They're more like an 85 point team.

    November looks fairly tough for the Oilers. Only a 3 game home stand with a 5 game road trip.
    Last edited by Deathsdoorstep; 10-31-2019 at 09:48 AM.
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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    You'd better brace yourself, mate. They are going to miss the playoffs. But it will be for the last time in a decade.

    Mind you, at the half way point in the season it is entirely possible that Holland makes some moves.

    Adam Larsson is done as an Oiler. I think Kris Russell won't be here at the deadline either. At that point they have to bring guys up to finish the season. If Lagesson and Jones are ready to play in the NHL in January, you may well see them. And that's the beauty of Holland's plan. If they are ready then you've got 3 guys from Bakersfield already and another next year. That way you don't need to make stupid moves or waste cap space on over-paid free agents.

    Bear is up with the big club permanently now. He'll get a one-way deal.

    Of course it is entirely possible that I'm wrong and the Oilers make the playoffs. The average number of points in the last 4 seasons required to make the playoffs in the west is 92. The Oilers have 19 and would therefore need 73 more points in 68 games. That's just a hair above .500 the rest of the way. It's possible. I just don't think so. They're more like an 85 point team.

    November looks fairly tough for the Oilers. Only a 3 game home stand with a 5 game road trip.
    If they survive November and play at least .500 hockey for the month, that would be a good indicator that they at least have a chance. Not nearly as many "should win" games available and lot more "should lose" games, so a average or better record would likely mean they are playing decent hockey.

    Playoff teams "should" win 8 out of 14 (or at least earn 16 out of 28 points). It's hard to see where they get those 16 points. Jersey and the Kings are reasonable bets to get 4 of those points, Stars and Ducks may be coin tosses, but then the rest are either solid playoff teams (Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Sharksx2 - though they seem brutal so far, Coloradox2, Vegas) or teams that look really good this year (Phoenix x 2, Vancouver).

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    If they survive November and play at least .500 hockey for the month, that would be a good indicator that they at least have a chance. Not nearly as many "should win" games available and lot more "should lose" games, so a average or better record would likely mean they are playing decent hockey.

    Playoff teams "should" win 8 out of 14 (or at least earn 16 out of 28 points). It's hard to see where they get those 16 points. Jersey and the Kings are reasonable bets to get 4 of those points, Stars and Ducks may be coin tosses, but then the rest are either solid playoff teams (Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Sharksx2 - though they seem brutal so far, Coloradox2, Vegas) or teams that look really good this year (Phoenix x 2, Vancouver).
    Their goaltending will need to continue to be great. Somebody besides 97, 10 and 29 will have to score. Not sure who that is.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    An interesting observation though. Through October, Edmonton went 3-1 vs. teams currently in a playoff spot (one of the wins in OT), and 6-3-1 vs. teams currently out of playoffs (one of the wins in shootout).

    It was a soft schedule, but their result wasn't only built on beating the bad teams. Outside the Florida game, I'd argue that their best games were the ones against the current playoff teams (NYI, Washington and arguably Vancouver). Certainly, their worst games were against non-playoff teams (Minnesota, Detroit, and Chicago).

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