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Thread: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    You'd better brace yourself, mate. They are going to miss the playoffs. But it will be for the last time in a decade.

    Mind you, at the half way point in the season it is entirely possible that Holland makes some moves.

    Adam Larsson is done as an Oiler. I think Kris Russell won't be here at the deadline either. At that point they have to bring guys up to finish the season. If Lagesson and Jones are ready to play in the NHL in January, you may well see them. And that's the beauty of Holland's plan. If they are ready then you've got 3 guys from Bakersfield already and another next year. That way you don't need to make stupid moves or waste cap space on over-paid free agents. But keeping them down in Bakersfield right now is the right move, mate.

    Bear is up with the big club permanently now. He'll get a one-way deal.

    Of course it is entirely possible that I'm wrong and the Oilers make the playoffs. The average number of points in the last 4 seasons required to make the playoffs in the west is 92. The Oilers have 19 and would therefore need 73 more points in 68 games. That's just a hair above .500 the rest of the way. It's possible. I just don't think so. They're more like an 85 point team.

    November looks fairly tough for the Oilers. Only a 3 game home stand with a 5 game road trip.
    You have way too much faith in Holland.

    Larsson is not done as an Oiler, no idea why you would think that. I would definitely test his value in the offseason but it sure won't be high coming off a long-term injury. Russell MAY get traded in the offseason if you keep some money. Trading both guys in season is impossible.
    "No one entertains the thought that maybe God does not believe in you." - Bo Burnham

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    I will never say never when it comes to Holland after getting rid of Lucic. That should be the definition of an untradeable contract and still pulled it off...
    Quote from Inquiring Mind:

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Russell would have some potential value to cash-strapped teams, as IIRC his salary this season is lower then the AAV so he counts higher towards the cap than he's actually being paid. That said, IIRC he also has a limited NTC, which might eliminate some of those teams from being trade partners.

    Larrson could certainly be trade bait in the near future, but you wouldn't want to do that any time soon as his value is low right now (of course selling low would be "the Oiler way"), play him hard when he comes back from injury to get his value back up and make a decision then.

    Ultimately though, there is a difference between ripening in the minor and over-ripening. At some point, we are going to need to see what some of the young guys can add to the roster, and those need to be seen this season. Next year, some of those players would have to clear waivers and we risk losing them for nothing without actually knowing how they will perform in actual NHL conditions. I'm not saying bring up an entire line at once, but start sprinkling rookies in the line-up now while we can. We brought up Laggeson from the minors and had him sit in the press box entire time while playing a useless lump like Manning...how is that helping Laggesoon to "ripen" when we could have been seeing what we have? We also need to see Benson in action at some point this season, not playing for another team next season without compensation.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by stamphater View Post
    I will never say never when it comes to Holland after getting rid of Lucic. That should be the definition of an untradeable contract and still pulled it off...
    Perfect storm of Flames ownership being very cheap and James Neal *also* coming off a horrendous year at age 32.

    I'm sure DDS will love this, but Holland also has to start aggressively planning for the Seattle Expansion draft. Right now he's in line to lose either Caleb Jones or Tyler Benson.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    Perfect storm of Flames ownership being very cheap and James Neal *also* coming off a horrendous year at age 32.

    I'm sure DDS will love this, but Holland also has to start aggressively planning for the Seattle Expansion draft. Right now he's in line to lose either Caleb Jones or Tyler Benson.
    Neil's crappy year last year was entirely the fault of the Flames' coaching. You sit a guy on the 3rd line all year and never give him any PP time, then wonder why he doesn't produce.

    Holland won't lose either of those players, mate.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    Neil's crappy year last year was entirely the fault of the Flames' coaching. You sit a guy on the 3rd line all year and never give him any PP time, then wonder why he doesn't produce.

    Holland won't lose either of those players, mate.
    If he goes 4/4:

    He protects 97/29/93/Yamo and Klef/Nurse/Bear/Jones

    Loses Benson.

    If he goes 7/3, then obviously Jones is exposed and he loses Jones.

    The interesting idea this opens is trading Nurse for a legit F and going 7/3 and likely losing Laggesson.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    Perfect storm of Flames ownership being very cheap and James Neal *also* coming off a horrendous year at age 32.

    I'm sure DDS will love this, but Holland also has to start aggressively planning for the Seattle Expansion draft. Right now he's in line to lose either Caleb Jones or Tyler Benson.
    I think he has been planning for it. The only players currently on the NHL roster that could be exposed are: McDavid, Draisaitl, Neal, Jujhar, Klefbom, Nurse, Bear, Persson, Benning, Koskinen. Everyone else would be a UFA prior to the expansion. The players in the minors or elsewhere that are at risk are Marody, Yamamoto, Benson, Hebig, Vesey, Cave, Puljujarvi, Jones, Lagesson.

    So lots of options to fill out the remaining spots. Sure some other spots may be taken by players they sign or trade for over the next 12 months, but I don't see this as an unmanageable situation. I only see 4 current must protects with Bear to join the other four soon. So lots of options still available. If enough of the other players push the agenda that this becomes a real issue, it means we are seeing really good things coming up from the farm.

    Panicing today to save players that we don't even know whether they will be worth protecting in 18 months isn't the correct move. Hopefully, though, by summer a couple guys have pushed the agenda enough that this is a real concern.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    If he goes 4/4:

    He protects 97/29/93/Yamo and Klef/Nurse/Bear/Jones

    Loses Benson.

    If he goes 7/3, then obviously Jones is exposed and he loses Jones.

    The interesting idea this opens is trading Nurse for a legit F and going 7/3 and likely losing Laggesson.
    93 is UFA that summer. If you want to protect him, just pre-arrange an agreement to sign post-expansion. If he's selected, sign July 1st. If he isn't selected sign the day after expansion.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    You have to lose someone. I am not sure losing Benson would be the end of the world.
    "No one entertains the thought that maybe God does not believe in you." - Bo Burnham

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    93 is UFA that summer. If you want to protect him, just pre-arrange an agreement to sign post-expansion. If he's selected, sign July 1st. If he isn't selected sign the day after expansion.
    Screw that. Lock him up as soon as you can.
    "No one entertains the thought that maybe God does not believe in you." - Bo Burnham

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
    Screw that. Lock him up as soon as you can.
    Sure. If he's willing to sign this summer, then do it, but odds are he's going to want to bring it as close to UFA as possible. The 3rd best forward on a team is often sought to be the best player on a new team, so he likely wants to see his market value first, especially if we miss the playoffs yet again.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    Sure. If he's willing to sign this summer, then do it, but odds are he's going to want to bring it as close to UFA as possible. The 3rd best forward on a team is often sought to be the best player on a new team, so he likely wants to see his market value first, especially if we miss the playoffs yet again.
    Another reason to be looking hard at upgrading right now and not burning a year with a soft tank after a great start.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    If 29 is going to be a C, which many think is what happens when the Oilers are winning, then 93 will get traded at the deadline next year. If the Oilers are throwing in the towel on 29 being a C, then they have to pay 93 to run their second line and he has to be protected. He will make $7M minimum.

    The Oilers have options on who to protect and not protect. I don't think the Oilers protect James Neal, for example.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    If 29 is going to be a C, which many think is what happens when the Oilers are winning, then 93 will get traded at the deadline next year. If the Oilers are throwing in the towel on 29 being a C, then they have to pay 93 to run their second line and he has to be protected. He will make $7M minimum.

    The Oilers have options on who to protect and not protect. I don't think the Oilers protect James Neal, for example.
    Definitely not. Even if he potted 50 this year, he'd be going into his age 34 season. You only protect him if there is noone else you need to protect and maybe not even then as the $5.75M in cap space likely is more valuable than anything he could bring at that point.

    In fact our best option for preparing for the expansion is to keep pumping Neal's value so much so that Seattle takes him to be their veteran scorer to give some space to the likely large group of younger players that will be on their roster. You maybe even give them a pick to do so.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Incredible game by Mike Smith and two great individual efforts by Cave and Draisatl pot 'em two points in a game they should have lost by 4.

    They're in the bank.

    Send in some reinforcements now.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    If he goes 4/4:

    He protects 97/29/93/Yamo and Klef/Nurse/Bear/Jones

    Loses Benson.

    If he goes 7/3, then obviously Jones is exposed and he loses Jones.

    The interesting idea this opens is trading Nurse for a legit F and going 7/3 and likely losing Laggesson.
    Correct me if I am wrong but guys like Benson, Marody, Jones, Lagesson will be ineligible if they don't play the required number of games this season. All first and second year NHLers will be exempt. Perhaps even Bear would fall into it as he will just be ending his second season by that time. Now I may have those rules wrong but that was how I understood it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    Perfect storm of Flames ownership being very cheap and James Neal *also* coming off a horrendous year at age 32.
    There has been no talk about Flames ownership being cheap considering they are right at the cap as it is. Not sure what you mean there. As for Neal, yeah a bad year but I think it was more related to Peters wanting him gone...

    Wouldn't be the first player Peters ran a player out of town.
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    Of course stamphater is sacred... we all worship the ground he walks on.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    e
    Quote Originally Posted by stamphater View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong but guys like Benson, Marody, Jones, Lagesson will be ineligible if they don't play the required number of games this season. All first and second year NHLers will be exempt. Perhaps even Bear would fall into it as he will just be ending his second season by that time. Now I may have those rules wrong but that was how I understood it.

    - - - Updated - - -


    There has been no talk about Flames ownership being cheap considering they are right at the cap as it is. Not sure what you mean there. As for Neal, yeah a bad year but I think it was more related to Peters wanting him gone...

    Wouldn't be the first player Peters ran a player out of town.
    Anyone waiver eligible is eligible for it is the easy rule of thumb. All of those guys are waiver eligible next year. Holland has a *ton* of work to do between now and the deadline and then the draft - he can't be losing guys for free.

    At the time of the trade Lucic was owed $16,000,000 and Neal $28,750,000.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Nik Petan might be the 4th best Oiler F and they didn't claim him.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    OMG NO!!!!

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    I recall similar reactions to lots of small deals that ultimately led to big mistakes.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    Nik Petan might be the 4th best Oiler F and they didn't claim him.
    But no one else did...

    Not saying the Oilers shouldn't have done it but there's a reason he was passed over.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtuck09 View Post
    But no one else did...

    Not saying the Oilers shouldn't have done it but there's a reason he was passed over.
    Ok, sure. But put the entire Oilers bottom 6 on waivers, and who gets claimed?
    "No one entertains the thought that maybe God does not believe in you." - Bo Burnham

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
    Ok, sure. But put the entire Oilers bottom 6 on waivers, and who gets claimed?
    That in itself is likely why no claim. I suspect Holland feels they need to keep contract space just in case.

    Personally, with how the season has gone, I'd risk filling one more spot as we'd still have room for one more even with the extra contract for the right player.

    Petan may have been such a player, but I'm not so sure there isn't already guys on the farm that are his equal while being a couple years younger. This is his 5th pro year and can't seem to get into many games, and when he does he can't seem to crack 10 minutes, so I don't think he's the guy to burn a contract on.

    I'd argue that Jurco's career numbers both NHL and AHL are better and he's bigger.
    Last edited by bone; 11-08-2019 at 01:57 PM.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Something else to keep in mind with the expansion draft coming up in a few years is that anyone with a NMC/NTC has to be protected unless they waive (I believe this is what Fleury did with Pittsburgh).

    Can someone explain something about the rules on NMC/NTC clauses. I thought that I had heard once that once a player waives the NTC/NMC once, it is not longer in affect. So this would mean for example Lucic or Neal can now be traded to anyone, because they waived once.
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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Depends on the team, most will still honour it and a lot of times the players won't void it if the new team won't agree to honour it.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Wrong thread
    Quote from Inquiring Mind:

    Of course stamphater is sacred... we all worship the ground he walks on.

    #PizStrong

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Manning, Gagner and Nygard are in, Haas, Persson and Granlund are out.

    Tippet has been very strong thus far but I'd be fine if the love affairs for Manning and P. Russell were put to an end.

    I thought Haas has looked very good since returning from that very short Bakersfield stint and I'm disappointed he's not in the lineup; could be a maintenance thing if he's still banged up though.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    How the hell does Manning keep getting playing time in the NHL? He's a wasted spot on an AHL roster.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Suspect the best Oilers D core looks like:

    Klefbom-Larsson
    Nurse-Bear
    Jones-Benning

    It's long past due to send Russell for a F who can help.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Tippet must love Manning like how Kavis loved Kerry Joseph for him to keep being slotted into the lineup.
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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by OK14 View Post
    Tippet must love Manning like how Kavis loved Kerry Joseph for him to keep being slotted into the lineup.
    I really don't get it either. May be a guy who is great in practice but freaks out on game day.
    "Of all the so-called virtues, the most over-rated is faith" - Christopher Hitchens

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