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Thread: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by nafnikufesin View Post
    Is the parade back on again?
    Meh. Remember the rule on esksfans: If the Oilers win it's not real. If the Oilers lose the GM sucks (no matter who it is). I saw a guy on Twitter call Ken Holland "Chia 2.0". Just about pissed myself laughing.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by nafnikufesin View Post
    Is the parade back on again?
    Man, those Oilers. Lose four straight in uninspiring fashion, and then try to rope us in by winning.

    Trolls...
    Keep an open mind, and you never know who might walk in...

    RIP Pizmo

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    See, it goes both ways. In 2005-2006 (and the receipts are here, feel free to search them), I was saying the Oilers were much better than their record while other guys were calling Pronger overrated and MacT a terrible coach the entire season. It was **** goaltending and bad luck and then the worm turned.

    There's so much noise in hockey, teams are rarely what their record says it is and it takes a lot more to suss out who is real and who is not.

    Also comparing Holland to Peter based on their managerial styles is insane.

    He's clearly Steve Tambo 2.0
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    The rumored $20,000,000 / 5 years for Kassian would certainly resemble another terrible Ken Holland deal - Justin Abdelkator.

    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOF.

    If that's anywhere near true he should be fired on the spot.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    The rumored $20,000,000 / 5 years for Kassian would certainly resemble another terrible Ken Holland deal - Justin Abdelkator.

    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOF.

    If that's anywhere near true he should be fired on the spot.
    thats horrible...

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    He's 28, so no longer than 3 years. And he's a 10-15 goal and 10-15 assist guy who is havinga great year playing with McDavid. 25 point guys don't get paid $4M a year, do they?

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    The rumored $20,000,000 / 5 years for Kassian would certainly resemble another terrible Ken Holland deal - Justin Abdelkator.

    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOF.

    If that's anywhere near true he should be fired on the spot.
    That can't be for real. That would completely asinine. And I love #44...
    Quote from Inquiring Mind:

    Of course stamphater is sacred... we all worship the ground he walks on.

    #PizStrong

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by stamphater View Post
    That can't be for real. That would completely asinine. And I love #44...
    Friedman today saying that 4 years x 3.5 per is the starting point because of the Ferlund contract (that is already terrible) signed last June.

    Anything more than $10,000,000/3 means you should be letting him walk.

    Stauffer today has Nurse's camp turning down $55,000,000 / 8 - that's an absurd number for him to be turning down, and if he won't take that you may as well trade him for an F to a non-insane contract.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    3x3 for Kassian or let him walk.
    No more than $6.25M for Nurse.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    Friedman today saying that 4 years x 3.5 per is the starting point because of the Ferlund contract (that is already terrible) signed last June.

    Anything more than $10,000,000/3 means you should be letting him walk.

    Stauffer today has Nurse's camp turning down $55,000,000 / 8 - that's an absurd number for him to be turning down, and if he won't take that you may as well trade him for an F to a non-insane contract.
    Michael Ferland had scored 15 or more goals three consecutive years since his second full season, had completed back to back 40 point seasons and signed the contract at 27 years old. He has never played with a linemate as good as McDavid or Draisaitl though he did get quite a bit of time with Gaudreau and Monahan.

    Zack Kassian has scored 15 only once, has never put up more than 30 points, had his most two successful seasons earning most of his points playing with both McDavid and Draisaitl. His only other successful seasons point wise included quite a bit of icetime with the Sedins but it wasn't propped up as much by them. He will be 29 when the contract kicks in.

    Zack Kassian does not have the same value as Ferland.

    I like Kassian, and hope he stays but some of the dollars being talked about are idiotic.

    To add some actual data to the exercise.

    In the past two seasons (Zack's best) there have been 83 5x5 goals scored by Edmonton when he was on the ice. McDavid was also on the ice for 58 of them, and Draisaitl 56 of them. Every other forward on the team combined adds up to 52 goals that they would have been on the ice with him.

    For Ferland's two previous year's that got him a contract, there were 92 5x5 goals scored by Calgary with him on the ice. 42 were with Gaudreau on the ice, 42 with Monahan on the ice. Every other forward added up to 101 goals. So his results are much less reliant (though certainly helped) by Gaudreau and Monahan.
    Last edited by bone; 12-18-2019 at 03:54 PM.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    Michael Ferland had scored 15 or more goals three consecutive years since his second full season, had completed back to back 40 point seasons and signed the contract at 27 years old. He has never played with a linemate as good as McDavid or Draisaitl though he did get quite a bit of time with Gaudreau and Monahan.

    Zack Kassian has scored 15 only once, has never put up more than 30 points, had his most two successful seasons earning most of his points playing with both McDavid and Draisaitl. His only other successful seasons point wise included quite a bit of icetime with the Sedins. He will be 29 when the contract kicks in.

    Zack Kassian does not have the same value as Ferland.

    I like Kassian, and hope he stays but some of the dollars being talked about are idiotic.

    To add some actual data to the exercise.

    In the past two seasons (Zack's best) there have been 83 goals scored by Edmonton when he was on the ice. McDavid was also on the ice for 58 of them, and Draisaitl 56 of them. Every other forward on the team combined adds up to 52 goals that they would have been on the ice with him.
    I don't disagree with either of these posts nor was I endorsing signing either of those rumored deals. Both are far too rich.

    Had DDS quoted, it disappeared for some reason.

    Nurse has no argument for getting paid more than Morrissey and the fact 97 took a discount should be used as some leverage here as well.

    Kassian should be aware he's being gifted all kinds of minutes with two of the best forwards on the planet and he only has to look at what the free agent market thought of Pat Maroon....
    Last edited by PDO; 12-18-2019 at 03:53 PM.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    I don't disagree with either of these posts nor was I endorsing signing either of those rumored deals. Both are far too rich.

    Had DDS quoted, it disappeared for some reason.

    Nurse has no argument for getting paid more than Morrissey and the fact 97 took a discount should be used as some leverage here as well.

    Kassian should be aware he's being gifted all kinds of minutes with two of the best forwards on the planet and he only has to look at what the free agent market thought of Pat Maroon....
    I could live with DDS 3x3 considering the Ferland comparison, but even that is too rich in my opinion. I think if you split the difference between Chiassons and Ferlands, you're closer to the real value.
    Last edited by bone; 12-18-2019 at 04:09 PM.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Yeah, if he thinks he can get more than that let him walk on July 1 and see what he can find. Signing him right now is unnecessary, you're only bidding against yourself and the Oilers almost assuredly value him more than the rest of the league does.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    Stauffer today has Nurse's camp turning down $55,000,000 / 8 - that's an absurd number for him to be turning down
    Seriously, how do you walk away from that offer. Man oh man.

    If that's true, and I'm more skeptical of what Bob says than anyone else in this city, then trade him.
    "No one entertains the thought that maybe God does not believe in you." - Bo Burnham

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
    Seriously, how do you walk away from that offer. Man oh man.

    If that's true, and I'm more skeptical of what Bob says than anyone else in this city, then trade him.
    This year, that would be tied for the 15th highest cap hit for defensemen.

    Based off guys currently signed for next season, that would be tied for the 18th highest cap number in the NHL among defensemen next season. Does anyone think he's top 20 in the entire NHL?

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    I am a huge Nurse fan but if he thinks he's worth more than Morrissey, then bye bye Nurse. Their stats are almost identical. Morrissey is probably a slightly better defender but Nurse is a little tougher and maybe slightly more offensive but not by much.
    Blindly accept whatever they do and if it doesn't work out, I guess there's always next year.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    SectionQ, DDS, Angelus and I all agreeing on a potential Oilers move.

    Outside of McDavid this has probably never happened and speaks to just how ****ing insane him turning down 55/8 would be given it never should have even been offered.

    If Nurse wants to be a $7,000,0000 dman, all the power to him, but it should not happen in Edmonton. I'm not even sure he's the 2nd best dman on the team (Bear), never mind a top 15 D in the league.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    SectionQ, DDS, Angelus and I all agreeing on a potential Oilers move.

    Outside of McDavid this has probably never happened and speaks to just how ****ing insane him turning down 55/8 would be given it never should have even been offered.

    If Nurse wants to be a $7,000,0000 dman, all the power to him, but it should not happen in Edmonton. I'm not even sure he's the 2nd best dman on the team (Bear), never mind a top 15 D in the league.
    Mate, we actually have agreed more times than not. It doesn't get heated when you agree.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    SectionQ, DDS, Angelus and I all agreeing on a potential Oilers move.
    That would explain the flying pig I saw outside my window this morning.
    Keep an open mind, and you never know who might walk in...

    RIP Pizmo

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music...

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Just so we don't have too much love in this thread, still waiting to know how:

    #1) Signing a 4th liner for 2x2.2 Million
    #2) Buying out a top 4 D who will count against the cap for 3 more years
    #3) Signing a terrible goalie who will count against next years cap due to his bonus structure
    #4) Not being able to mend fences with Jesse Puljujarvi
    #5) Wasting prime years of 29 and 97
    #6) Drafting a D who is, at best, two years away from being two years away from being a top 4 D at #8 in a forward heavy
    #7) Having only 10 players under contract for next year is a *good* thing when it's a historic number
    #8) Currently having 10 D who will require waivers next year, plus Bouchard, and not knowing if two of them can play in the NHL while they "percolate."

    .... does anything to build a foundation for the future?

    29 and 97 are in their primes and the future is now, and every single one of those moves hurts the team for 2020-2021.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PDO View Post
    Just so we don't have too much love in this thread, still waiting to know how:

    #1) Signing a 4th liner for 2x2.2 Million
    #2) Buying out a top 4 D who will count against the cap for 3 more years
    #3) Signing a terrible goalie who will count against next years cap due to his bonus structure
    #4) Not being able to mend fences with Jesse Puljujarvi
    #5) Wasting prime years of 29 and 97
    #6) Drafting a D who is, at best, two years away from being two years away from being a top 4 D at #8 in a forward heavy
    #7) Having only 10 players under contract for next year is a *good* thing when it's a historic number
    #8) Currently having 10 D who will require waivers next year, plus Bouchard, and not knowing if two of them can play in the NHL while they "percolate."

    .... does anything to build a foundation for the future?

    29 and 97 are in their primes and the future is now, and every single one of those moves hurts the team for 2020-2021.
    Agreed with basically all of that but the Defense comment. They are already playing two waiver exempt players in the lineup every night. There's only so many that you can bring in at once. Granted Bear very quickly turned into a legit NHL d-man, I have a hard time bringing any of the other non-waiver d-men out of the lineup to add Lagesson or Persson.

    This assumes you mean Lagesson or Persson. If you are referring to Logan Day, as the 10th guy, I'm not sure what they should do about that as I really don't see him as a waiver risk next year anyways.

    People often rebut comments like mine as simply trade Russell or Larsson. But the reality is that the team is still in a playoff position and Russell and Larsson give them better odds today at winning today.

    I 100% agree Russell is overpaid and sucks as a top 4. But now that he's solidly entrenched as a bottom pair left side d-man who kills penalties, you'd have a hard time convincing me a team interested in winning is better off swapping him out for a raw rookie who won't kill penalties. He's typically been overated by many particularly media, but right now, I'd argue he's being slightly underrated while certainly overpaid.

    I do hope they at some point try and get Lagesson a half dozen games, but they likely need to see an injury to Nurse, Klefbom, Russell or two of the right handed d-men before they can actually put him in a position to succeed.
    Last edited by bone; 12-19-2019 at 09:06 AM.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Christ, are we going to have to hear the pissing and moaning about the GM every time the Oil have a loss? It HAS been a pretty good season so far considering what we are used to.

    1. 2.2M for 2 years isn't so bad for a player like Chiasson who had 24 goals last year, but averages 10 goals and 25 points. Is it an overpay? Sure. But by how much? Wanna quibble over a few hundred thousand?
    2. Buying out an old, injury plagued Sekera still counts against the cap, yes. But it also saved $3M against their cap vs. keeping him. If you think they didn't try to trade him you're wrong.
    3. How much will Mike Smith's bonus structure count against next year's cap? His salary is only $2M and while he was great early in the year, he's struggling now and needs to play less. What kind of bonuses will he get?
    4. Jeese Poolparty wasn't coming back to Edmonton. Period. Blaming Holland for that is insane.
    5. Nothing Holland can do about the past. His job is to fix the team long-term. And he can't undo all the damage Chiarelli did on one freaking year! By the way, McDavid is 22 and Draisaitl is 24. Lots of good years left. Lots.
    6. If anyone knows about building through drafting and development it's Ken Holland. Broburg was an excellent pick. I seem to recall a poster on here always saying that picking the best player available was always the way to go instead of picking for now. I guess that narrative doesn't work for him now.
    7. Holland definitely has to fill out the roster in the offseason. But his plan was to do that with one year deals while the bad contracts lapsed and in the meantime develop from within instead of going for quick fixes. It is a solid plan.
    8. Complaining that the GM is letting players develop at their proper pace is laughable. Persson and Lagesson at 25 and 23 years old, are either going to make it in the NHL next year or they aren't. If they aren't it won't matter if they are waiver eligible or not. Broburg is only 18. Bouchard 20. Let them "percolate". Ethan Bear and Caleb Jones will both be on the Oilers next year. If one of the other two makes it Russel gets dealt.

    Yes, this is a good foundation for the future.

    Holland is on the right track.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    A bit of trivia I stumbled across just now... there are competing theories about the origin of the "Mexican wave", but one of the most plausible is that it happened at an Edmonton Oilers hockey game around 1980 in Northlands. Krazy George recalls that he was trying to get fans to get up on their feet and cheer; one section of fans had a delayed reaction; and it triggered a wave around the arena.

    I had no idea the Oilers were connected with it!
    Out of my mind; back in five minutes.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    25 point guys don't get paid $4M a year, do they?
    No. We get paid $6M.

    Signed Milan Lucic and Loui Ericsson

    Holland at least deserves credit for getting rid of Lucic albeit for another bad contract in Neal. But the only way to move him was always going to be in a swap of similar priced bad contracts and hope the change of scenery ignites the incoming bad contract player. Neal's been good on the PP but should be stapled to the bench 5 on 5. In the first 8 games he had 9G (6PPG) 1A +1 with 6PPG. In the 30 games played since 7G (4PPG) 6A (4 PPA) and -21.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by glenvb View Post
    A bit of trivia I stumbled across just now... there are competing theories about the origin of the "Mexican wave", but one of the most plausible is that it happened at an Edmonton Oilers hockey game around 1980 in Northlands. Krazy George recalls that he was trying to get fans to get up on their feet and cheer; one section of fans had a delayed reaction; and it triggered a wave around the arena.

    I had no idea the Oilers were connected with it!
    Funny as I recall George being at the Pacific Coliseum for a Canucks/Flyers first round playoff game in 1979 and getting the wave going there. He'd already established himself at Lions games at Empire by then.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post

    Zack Kassian has scored 15 only once, has never put up more than 30 points, had his most two successful seasons earning most of his points playing with both McDavid and Draisaitl. His only other successful seasons point wise included quite a bit of icetime with the Sedins but it wasn't propped up as much by them. He will be 29 when the contract kicks in.

    Zack Kassian does not have the same value as Ferland.

    I like Kassian, and hope he stays but some of the dollars being talked about are idiotic.
    You almost have to dismiss Kassian's career prior to Edmonton. He was a pretty messed up individual until that car accident when with Montreal. He decided he needed to straighten his life around and got into rehab and is a totally different man now. He always was a good skater for a big man and showed smooth hands. He's turned into quite a useful player as a physical presence riding shotgun for McDavid. Unlike lumbering Lucic Zack can skate with Conor. Don't know if Tippett uses him on the PK but he proved capable there last year.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    Christ, are we going to have to hear the pissing and moaning about the GM every time the Oil have a loss? It HAS been a pretty good season so far considering what we are used to.


    3. How much will Mike Smith's bonus structure count against next year's cap? His salary is only $2M and while he was great early in the year, he's struggling now and needs to play less. What kind of bonuses will he get?.
    I don't think any of his bonuses can count against next year's cap. According to Cap Friendly Smith is on a one year deal at $2M with GP bonuses of $125K that will kick in at 5 game intervals starting at 20GP. The next game he plays will trigger the first installment. If he gets in a 35th game he will have earned $500K in playing bonuses. At 40GP those bonuses bump to $250K. His $2M salary ranks him 40th in the league for goalies. Maximum he can earn for performance bonuses is $1.75M.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer24 View Post
    I don't think any of his bonuses can count against next year's cap. According to Cap Friendly Smith is on a one year deal at $2M with GP bonuses of $125K that will kick in at 5 game intervals starting at 20GP. The next game he plays will trigger the first installment. If he gets in a 35th game he will have earned $500K in playing bonuses. At 40GP those bonuses bump to $250K. His $2M salary ranks him 40th in the league for goalies. Maximum he can earn for performance bonuses is $1.75M.
    They can only count against next years cap because this team will be capped out. Its similar to what happened to the Leafs with their big ELC contract bonuses hitting. Panarin on Chicago was another example. Every bonus Smith hits will directly come off of next years cap.

    Realistically he was a horrible bet from the word go and the fact it hurts this years team and next years team is a huge indictment.

    Death by paper cuts is a real thing in a hard cap NHL.
    "This year, we did what we were supposed to do. We fought as a team. We fought as a team. And the fact is, we gotta go back and go to work, to make sure we finish this next time. That's all we gotta do. This right here makes us stronger. Let's understand who we are as a team. Let's understand this right here makes us stronger." - Ray Lewis, January, 2012.

    Superbowl Champs 2013.

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    Re: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers Season Thread - Another Year of Stockholm Syndrome

    Personally I think Smith has been over-rated for a few years so understand some of the sentiments. But with $33M in cap space tied up in McDavid, Draisaitl, Nuge and at the time Lucic's boat anchor deal as well as Chiarelli's "good faith" deal with Koskinen who still has not proven to be a legit starter Holland was already somewhat painted into a corner. He needed an inexpensive backup to play probably minimum 35 games, maybe 50+ in the event Koskinen stumbled with the burden of starting or worse yet got hurt. Holland needed to find a unicorn, a $4M goalie who was willing to play for half tha because that was all the Oilers could afford.

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