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Thread: Just Throwing It Out There...

  1. #61
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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    I've argued the same thing previously and even doubled down that Maas actually has a better playoff record.

    My concern now is that you can see that the Bombers have at least improved year over year, whereas Esks are going backwards. However, I'm even now starting to second guess O'Shea as he can't seem to get through to Streveler, and without Harris cheating they are looking much more mortal. So perhaps the team improvements were more of an illusion than I thought.


    For those that keep arguing about who else is out there. I'd offer up Tommy Condell as at least worth examining. His resume is pretty long. Most in offensive positions but some special teams experience as well. He is having some real success with a backup QB as an offensive coordinator. If you could convince Lolley to stay, that may be a pretty decent combination.

    There are likely some others out there as well. As already raised, we have four first year coaches in the CFL this year, 3 of which are doing awesome, and the other started horribly but has the team playing in such a way that many of us are already conceding defeat on Saturday.
    Agreed, there are tons of candidates out there. That excuse holds no merit with me.

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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    If you look at the coaches this year, I see a couple of tiers.

    Coaches who are looking good this year
    Steinhauer - Hamilton
    Jones - Montreal
    Dickenson - Calgary
    Dickenson - Saskatchewan

    Coaches who seem to be underachieving
    Maas - Edmonton
    O'Shea - Winnipeg

    Coaches at the bottom
    Chamberlain - Toronto
    Claybrooks - BC

    Rick Campbell gets a pass for me this year because I don't think anyone could have done anything with the hand he was dealt.

    I don't think Maas is doing great, but I don't think he is the bottom of the barrel. My worry is that there has been so much league wide coaching change lately. 5 senior coaches were taken off the grid entirely last off season (J Jones, Sherman, C Jones, Buono, Trestman). On top of that, some senior assistants have also left for the US. A lot of the top coordinators are either too new to their position to be ready for the next promotion or are much older and have failed as a head coach and have now settled into what they are good at as coordinators.(I have a feeling that Maas may fit into that category of good coordinator that is not a good head coach).


    If Rick Campbell gets fired, I would consider firing Maas if you could get him, but if not, I don't see a candidate out there that would be an upgrade so I think you might have to bide your time and hope that Jason continues to learn from his mistakes.


    I personally give Brock a 'B' for his job as GM and if he would have brought in a serviceable backup QB, I would give him an 'A'.

  3. #63
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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by wildwest View Post
    If you look at the coaches this year, I see a couple of tiers.

    Coaches who are looking good this year
    Steinhauer - Hamilton
    Jones - Montreal
    Dickenson - Calgary
    Dickenson - Saskatchewan

    Coaches who seem to be underachieving
    Maas - Edmonton
    O'Shea - Winnipeg

    Coaches at the bottom
    Chamberlain - Toronto
    Claybrooks - BC

    Rick Campbell gets a pass for me this year because I don't think anyone could have done anything with the hand he was dealt.

    I don't think Maas is doing great, but I don't think he is the bottom of the barrel. My worry is that there has been so much league wide coaching change lately. 5 senior coaches were taken off the grid entirely last off season (J Jones, Sherman, C Jones, Buono, Trestman). On top of that, some senior assistants have also left for the US. A lot of the top coordinators are either too new to their position to be ready for the next promotion or are much older and have failed as a head coach and have now settled into what they are good at as coordinators.(I have a feeling that Maas may fit into that category of good coordinator that is not a good head coach).


    If Rick Campbell gets fired, I would consider firing Maas if you could get him, but if not, I don't see a candidate out there that would be an upgrade so I think you might have to bide your time and hope that Jason continues to learn from his mistakes.


    I personally give Brock a 'B' for his job as GM and if he would have brought in a serviceable backup QB, I would give him an 'A'.
    Agree for the most part but for Claybrook being a rookie, we don't know where he is truly, so I'd be willing to bump him at least into the underachieving, particularly as the team is improving with time.

    I also don't think it's fair to group anyone with Chamblin as he is in his own special league of being bad.

    After winning the Grey Cup in 2013 and starting 2014 at 9-3, his entire coaching career turned around in one game. A 24-0 humiliation at Commonwealth. The only other game he won as a coach in Saskatchewan after that was a mop up game against Nichols on the final game of the season when the standings were set. 1-14 over a 15 game stretch. He even lost the pre-season games that year.

    Now joining Toronto, he starts out the season 1-9 with the first win being a miracle comeback again against Matt Nichols, before beating truly sad sack Ottawa team. Since that Ottawa win, he has again lost three in a row including losing a game by nearly 7 touchdowns against one of the few other non-playoff teams to now sit at 2-12.

    Over his last 29 games he has a record of 3-26 with one of the wins in mop up game against Nichols with no playoff implications whatsoever, a flukey come from behind against Nichols again, and a drubbing of another terrible team that is currently playing like one of the worst teams in history. In those 26 losses, he was shut out twice in Commonwealth, lost by 20 or more points 10 times, he lost by more than 30 points 3 times, and by more than 40 points twice.

    I have no idea whatsoever why they aren't just canning him outright. He's never coaching ever again.

  4. #64

    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtuck09 View Post
    Agreed, there are tons of candidates out there. That excuse holds no merit with me.
    I don't think it's an excuse but more of an illustration that the grass isn't always greener. The chances of a brand new coach taking us to a Grey Cup in 2020 or 2021 are far lower then the chances of this current staff taking us there.

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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by ben_the_eskimo View Post
    I don't think it's an excuse but more of an illustration that the grass isn't always greener. The chances of a brand new coach taking us to a Grey Cup in 2020 or 2021 are far lower then the chances of this current staff taking us there.
    If we make the playoffs and pull off 1 win, I think Maas will get another shot as there is still the coaches cap to deal with and if I'm not mistaken he's signed through the end of next year.
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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by ben_the_eskimo View Post
    I don't think it's an excuse but more of an illustration that the grass isn't always greener. The chances of a brand new coach taking us to a Grey Cup in 2020 or 2021 are far lower then the chances of this current staff taking us there.
    I don’t think you can really measure that. Most people thought that Saskatchewan and Montreal were going to suck, in large part due to very late coaching changes.

  7. #67

    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    If we make the playoffs and pull off 1 win, I think Maas will get another shot as there is still the coaches cap to deal with and if I'm not mistaken he's signed through the end of next year.
    There's a whole other thing to be taken into consideration, now we're talking about burning our mulligan, throwing out all of our assistants (and we have some quality assistants on this staff) and somehow replacing them with guys that are not super green or under qualified like the staff BC trotted out to start this year, all in hopes that the next guy turns out to be an upgrade over the guy we currently have who happens to have the third most wins of all active CFL coaches all while coaching under tougher circumstances then the two guys ahead of him.

    Maybe this hypothetical new guy ends up being the next Chris Jones and wins a cup in year two, but history shows us that it's far more likely he's the next Kavis Reed, Richie Hall, Danny Maciocia, etc, etc. So this idea that simply firing Maas will solve all of the teams problems is extremely short-sighted and naive.

    I also realize that there's a risk to keeping him as well in that he may not ever be able to get to the next level, but I think the chance that he can is high enough to warrant the gamble.

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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by wildwest View Post
    If you look at the coaches this year, I see a couple of tiers.

    Coaches who are looking good this year
    Steinhauer - Hamilton
    Jones - Montreal
    Dickenson - Calgary
    Dickenson - Saskatchewan

    Coaches who seem to be underachieving
    Maas - Edmonton
    O'Shea - Winnipeg

    Coaches at the bottom
    Chamberlain - Toronto
    Claybrooks - BC

    Rick Campbell gets a pass for me this year because I don't think anyone could have done anything with the hand he was dealt.

    I don't think Maas is doing great, but I don't think he is the bottom of the barrel. My worry is that there has been so much league wide coaching change lately. 5 senior coaches were taken off the grid entirely last off season (J Jones, Sherman, C Jones, Buono, Trestman). On top of that, some senior assistants have also left for the US. A lot of the top coordinators are either too new to their position to be ready for the next promotion or are much older and have failed as a head coach and have now settled into what they are good at as coordinators.(I have a feeling that Maas may fit into that category of good coordinator that is not a good head coach).


    If Rick Campbell gets fired, I would consider firing Maas if you could get him, but if not, I don't see a candidate out there that would be an upgrade so I think you might have to bide your time and hope that Jason continues to learn from his mistakes.


    I personally give Brock a 'B' for his job as GM and if he would have brought in a serviceable backup QB, I would give him an 'A'.
    Claybrooks is a rookie HC, so hard to assess at this point. If he’s as bad as you have classified him (& with Chamblin to boot!) then he would have lost his guys & they would have lost their last few games.
    The difference between him & Craig Dickensen as rookie HCs is that CD had/has a more experienced in general & already used to working together coaching staff. I think Clay’s staff is horrible....though the new O-line coach is an improvement.

    I’m not sure Campbell would want to be HC in Edmonton. The legend of his dad would be looming over him.

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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by ben_the_eskimo View Post
    I don't think it's an excuse but more of an illustration that the grass isn't always greener. The chances of a brand new coach taking us to a Grey Cup in 2020 or 2021 are far lower then the chances of this current staff taking us there.
    Not true at all, as Khari Jones has done a damn good job in Montreal, Steinhauer in Hamilton is another example. A fresh voice sometimes changes a teams demenor and outlook, especially when the voice that has been here has done nothing to prove he's a good HC.

    I have no faith that Maas' as our HC can take us to the Grey Cup.

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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtuck09 View Post
    Not true at all, as Khari Jones has done a damn good job in Montreal, Steinhauer in Hamilton is another example. A fresh voice sometimes changes a teams demenor and outlook, especially when the voice that has been here has done nothing to prove he's a good HC.

    I have no faith that Maas' as our HC can take us to the Grey Cup.
    Have to admit that I am wavering on Maas somewhat but also am very leery about ending up with another Kavis Reed/ Richie Hall situation while Jason moves on and wins a cup somewhere else.
    #PizStrong

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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtuck09 View Post
    Not true at all, as Khari Jones has done a damn good job in Montreal, Steinhauer in Hamilton is another example. A fresh voice sometimes changes a teams demenor and outlook, especially when the voice that has been here has done nothing to prove he's a good HC.

    I have no faith that Maas' as our HC can take us to the Grey Cup.
    Steinauer isn’t “new” per se. He was DC in Hamilton & was being groomed for HC before he left for the shiny American college football opportunity. Wasn’t he only gone for 1 season?

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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie123 View Post
    Steinauer isn’t “new” per se. He was DC in Hamilton & was being groomed for HC before he left for the shiny American college football opportunity. Wasn’t he only gone for 1 season?
    Has he been head coach before? No. So he's a rookie head coach. I'm not aware of many head coaches who weren't either offensive or defensive coordinators for some time before becoming head coach.... except Jason Maas that is as he only had one year as OC before becoming head coach.

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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    Has he been head coach before? No. So he's a rookie head coach. I'm not aware of many head coaches who weren't either offensive or defensive coordinators for some time before becoming head coach.... except Jason Maas that is as he only had one year as OC before becoming head coach.
    Oh ok. Thought he meant brand new as in brand new to the team, not roomie brand new. Although then I guess that wouldn’t apply to Khari since he was in Mtl last year...I think. Honestly can’t keep track.

    Maybe I was misunderstanding on purpose too haha ��

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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    Have to admit that I am wavering on Maas somewhat but also am very leery about ending up with another Kavis Reed/ Richie Hall situation while Jason moves on and wins a cup somewhere else.
    New HC likely means new OC and DC too. Get rid of 1 and we are back to square 1 scheme wise.
    The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    New HC likely means new OC and DC too. Get rid of 1 and we are back to square 1 scheme wise.
    agreed, most likely an offensive yard drop off but maybe Jasons issues lie in his score zone playcalling? We've moved the ball up and down the field all year but aren't putting up the points we should be. In fact we are ranked 7th in points for at 23.3 while being first in yards for at 386.2 yards per game, so really the offensive bar isn't all that high right now.
    #PizStrong

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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    agreed, most likely an offensive yard drop off but maybe Jasons issues lie in his score zone playcalling? We've moved the ball up and down the field all year but aren't putting up the points we should be. In fact we are ranked 7th in points for at 23.3 while being first in yards for at 386.2 yards per game, so really the offensive bar isn't all that high right now.
    I honestly think Carson Walch did a better job in the red zone here. Likely had better receivers then though.

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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsdoorstep View Post
    I'm no fan of Maas as coach, but it's not his fault that he wasn't provided with a bona-fide backup QB or star receivers. The blame for that rests elsewhere.
    Totally agree, my complaint with Brock is the same since he arrived. He is the invisible man during the season.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by T-BONE View Post
    Kilgore sucks, I donít think anybody is disputing that.

    But the Esks have 3 receivers in the top 15 in yards, nobody else has that many. Yes, we lack a stud receiver that some other teams have but I would argue we have better depth as Daniels, Ellingson and Collins are all performing like solid #2 guys.
    No good having great receivers if you are QB-less.

    Thatís like have four great winter tires on you car but no engine under the hood.
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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Khari has had a great year.. but let’s see how year 2 boded...

    I put stock to guys who have litmus tested ... 1 year wonders don’t really count. Like clay brooks.. not great this year the lions could go 18-0 next... u cannot judge a coach on 1 year..

    And when u lay em out no one has had more turnover and turmoil than Edmonton maas.. he’s done really well..

    But what will be will be.. he’s my hc and I think he’s doing fantastic.. that’s just my opinion

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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    The title of this thread sounds like Kilgores QB style "just throwing it out there"
    #PizStrong

  20. #80

    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtuck09 View Post
    Not true at all, as Khari Jones has done a damn good job in Montreal, Steinhauer in Hamilton is another example. A fresh voice sometimes changes a teams demenor and outlook, especially when the voice that has been here has done nothing to prove he's a good HC.

    I have no faith that Maas' as our HC can take us to the Grey Cup.
    I strongly disagree that he’s done nothing to prove he can be a good head coach. His tenure hasn’t been perfect by any means but overall there has been much more good than bad, and a fresh voice is only a solution if the coach has lost the room which he hasn’t.

    This organization just needs a bit of stability for once in order to turn the corner, and blowing everything up and starting from scratch is not the answer. The team leads the league in net O and net D so the coaching schemes are solid.
    Last edited by ben_the_eskimo; 10-12-2019 at 11:00 AM.

  21. #81
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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Imo Jason Maas's issue is there is still too much 'player' in the coach. He handles people as if he can trust them to play the way he played and he coaches the way he wanted to be coached, especially the QB position. Being a head coach is simply different than being a player and you have to have a different out outlook. The team seems to get 'figured out' by mid season by other teams.

    It's tough to think about getting rid of him as he still is a great offensive mind.

    If the Esks do make a change the guy I think gets the job is Noel Thorpe.

  22. #82

    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Imo Jason Maas's issue is there is still too much 'player' in the coach. He handles people as if he can trust them to play the way he played and he coaches the way he wanted to be coached, especially the QB position. Being a head coach is simply different than being a player and you have to have a different out outlook. The team seems to get 'figured out' by mid season by other teams.

    It's tough to think about getting rid of him as he still is a great offensive mind.

    If the Esks do make a change the guy I think gets the job is Noel Thorpe.
    These are valid points and not necessarily unexpected when you're talking about a guy who became a HC just 5 years after hanging up the cleats as a player. That transition almost never happens so fast. That's why I'm saying that he's way head of the curve for where he should be in his coaching career right now, most guys are only into year 2 or 3 of being a coordinator at this point if they're any good.

  23. #83

    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Coach Moss is NO Coach Landry This last challenge he just did, showed what a WHACK job he is...Kicking his paperwork around...He needs to be shown the EXIT door. Totally inept offense calling...

  24. #84

    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    Quote Originally Posted by coach_ditka View Post
    Coach Moss is NO Coach Landry This last challenge he just did, showed what a WHACK job he is...Kicking his paperwork around...He needs to be shown the EXIT door. Totally inept offense calling...
    Because he threw the flag and called out to the officials who proceeded to whistled the play in anyways.

    The play calling has been good tonight as well.

  25. #85
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    Re: Just Throwing It Out There...

    wrong thread
    Quote from Inquiring Mind:

    Of course stamphater is sacred... we all worship the ground he walks on.

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