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Thread: The CFL draft - April 30th

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Lots of the CFL insiders/reporters are saying Asse is one of the most ready prospects to go. So if we do take him I wouldn't be upset at all.

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    I really hope the Esks do not use their #4 overall on a player who's signed with the NFL. They need to go get a guy with the #4 that can be in the line up. Not a guy who could be years away from being in the CFL if ever.
    I would actually argue the opposite. While I wouldn't necessarily intentionally target a player already signed to an NFL roster, it's actually a pretty good year to gamble on talent given our Canadian depth. We don't have any immediate needs and have some really strong depth on the offensive and defensive lines.

    Any guy we choose this year likely won't be starting and given that, it doesn't hurt to gamble a little. I'm warming up to the idea of taking Carter O'Donnell and gambling on him being available in the next couple of years. Even if a guy like Asse is ready to play, there isn't a starting spot for him on the offensive line for at least a year or two and possibly more.

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
    I would actually argue the opposite. While I wouldn't necessarily intentionally target a player already signed to an NFL roster, it's actually a pretty good year to gamble on talent given our Canadian depth. We don't have any immediate needs and have some really strong depth on the offensive and defensive lines.

    Any guy we choose this year likely won't be starting and given that, it doesn't hurt to gamble a little. I'm warming up to the idea of taking Carter O'Donnell and gambling on him being available in the next couple of years. Even if a guy like Asse is ready to play, there isn't a starting spot for him on the offensive line for at least a year or two and possibly more.
    Always good to have more Canadian depth as injuries happen...

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
    I would actually argue the opposite. While I wouldn't necessarily intentionally target a player already signed to an NFL roster, it's actually a pretty good year to gamble on talent given our Canadian depth. We don't have any immediate needs and have some really strong depth on the offensive and defensive lines.

    Any guy we choose this year likely won't be starting and given that, it doesn't hurt to gamble a little. I'm warming up to the idea of taking Carter O'Donnell and gambling on him being available in the next couple of years. Even if a guy like Asse is ready to play, there isn't a starting spot for him on the offensive line for at least a year or two and possibly more.
    You constantly need young talent on your football to replace aging vets. Plus injuries happen so you need players all the time. When it comes to the CFL, having enough Canadian talent is critical because of the ratio. Your first round picks should be guys who are capable of playing in the CFL, being contributing players and be contributing players pretty quickly. Why would you want to waste a #4 overall on a guy like O'Donnell who best case is probably years away from coming to the CFL if at all. He wasn't invited to an NFL, he got signed by the Colts. From what I read and the interview I heard, they would have drafted him if they had a pick in the later rounds. So if you would have drafted a guy and then sign him to a contract, that says to me you plan on keeping him for a awhile.

    If you look at Stefan Charles. They drafted him 10th overall in 2013. Took him 6 yrs to come to the CFL. He's going to be 32 in June. His best years of football are long gone because football is a very physical sport and once you hit over 30, you've taken a lot of abuse on your body.

    In 2012 the Esks used a 4th overall to draft Austin Pasztor. The guy has NEVER played in the CFL. If O'Donnell is still on the board in the later rounds, then sure draft him. But to use him on a #4 I think would be a bad idea. You can't be potentially throwing away picks like that for a guy who may never play for you.
    Blindly accept whatever they do and if it doesn't work out, I guess there's always next year.

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Good points, but Mathieu Betts from last year is a guy who goes against that theory. He signed a 3 year deal with Chicago, yet we drafted him 3rd overall, and we had him in Green & Gold by September. O-linemen may be a bit bigger of a risk, but I think you have to look at it case by case, rather than make a rule for how you draft and stick to it.
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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    You constantly need young talent on your football to replace aging vets. Plus injuries happen so you need players all the time. When it comes to the CFL, having enough Canadian talent is critical because of the ratio. Your first round picks should be guys who are capable of playing in the CFL, being contributing players and be contributing players pretty quickly. Why would you want to waste a #4 overall on a guy like O'Donnell who best case is probably years away from coming to the CFL if at all. He wasn't invited to an NFL, he got signed by the Colts. From what I read and the interview I heard, they would have drafted him if they had a pick in the later rounds. So if you would have drafted a guy and then sign him to a contract, that says to me you plan on keeping him for a awhile.

    If you look at Stefan Charles. They drafted him 10th overall in 2013. Took him 6 yrs to come to the CFL. He's going to be 32 in June. His best years of football are long gone because football is a very physical sport and once you hit over 30, you've taken a lot of abuse on your body.

    In 2012 the Esks used a 4th overall to draft Austin Pasztor. The guy has NEVER played in the CFL. If O'Donnell is still on the board in the later rounds, then sure draft him. But to use him on a #4 I think would be a bad idea. You can't be potentially throwing away picks like that for a guy who may never play for you.
    It's definitely all about balancing out risk and reward. The Eskimos drafted Betts last year and we saw the exact opposite happen than what happened with Pasztor and Charles. Likewise, we added Tevaun Smith to the roster and he's still only 27 and has a number of good years left. Add in Arjen Colquhoun (even though he didn't work out) and we've actually had some luck when it comes to drafting guys with NFL interest.

    The team definitely needs to do their homework on a guy like O'Donnell, and really make an evaluation on if they think he'll stick in the NFL or not. It's always a positive to add more Canadian depth but I would just argue that if you're going to take a calculated gamble, this is a pretty good year to do so. On the other hand, if the team evaluates a guy like Asse as very close to O'Donnell in terms of potential, of course you take the safer pick.

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Betts was the only guy of the list above that came his draft year. The rest spent time in the NFL, most of them multiple seasons in the NFL. If it was me, I wouldn't risk that high of a pick on a player who you have no idea if he will be in the CFL anytime soon if ever. I'd rather have a player on my team contributing right away vs waiting for a player who maybe could be slightly better but you may never see him. I'd prefer them to use later round picks on gambles.
    Blindly accept whatever they do and if it doesn't work out, I guess there's always next year.

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    You constantly need young talent on your football to replace aging vets. Plus injuries happen so you need players all the time. When it comes to the CFL, having enough Canadian talent is critical because of the ratio. Your first round picks should be guys who are capable of playing in the CFL, being contributing players and be contributing players pretty quickly. Why would you want to waste a #4 overall on a guy like O'Donnell who best case is probably years away from coming to the CFL if at all. He wasn't invited to an NFL, he got signed by the Colts. From what I read and the interview I heard, they would have drafted him if they had a pick in the later rounds. So if you would have drafted a guy and then sign him to a contract, that says to me you plan on keeping him for a awhile.

    If you look at Stefan Charles. They drafted him 10th overall in 2013. Took him 6 yrs to come to the CFL. He's going to be 32 in June. His best years of football are long gone because football is a very physical sport and once you hit over 30, you've taken a lot of abuse on your body.

    In 2012 the Esks used a 4th overall to draft Austin Pasztor. The guy has NEVER played in the CFL. If O'Donnell is still on the board in the later rounds, then sure draft him. But to use him on a #4 I think would be a bad idea. You can't be potentially throwing away picks like that for a guy who may never play for you.
    CFL draft is a crap shoot and with limited roster sizes and no sort of farm system, you need to mix your draft up with guys who can play right away, with guys you can develop and guys you take a risk on. With the Betts pick last year we got the #1 rated guy with the #3 pick.
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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    Betts was the only guy of the list above that came his draft year. The rest spent time in the NFL, most of them multiple seasons in the NFL. If it was me, I wouldn't risk that high of a pick on a player who you have no idea if he will be in the CFL anytime soon if ever. I'd rather have a player on my team contributing right away vs waiting for a player who maybe could be slightly better but you may never see him. I'd prefer them to use later round picks on gambles.
    You're making the assumption that all "safer" CFL draft picks end up making the roster and becoming reliable players (let alone in the short-term). Every CFL pick is a gamble to a certain extent, and that's even true at the top end of the draft (which is very different from other professional leagues where the vast majority of top picks make it).

    Guys like Scott Mitchell, Devon Bailey, and Danny Groulx were all relatively "safe" first round picks that never really turned out. Heck, it's not even unusual for the 1st overall pick in the CFL draft to flop. Given this level of risk, it makes sense to sometimes gamble on talent even if you might not see them in the next few years.

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
    You're making the assumption that all "safer" CFL draft picks end up making the roster and becoming reliable players (let alone in the short-term). Every CFL pick is a gamble to a certain extent, and that's even true at the top end of the draft (which is very different from other professional leagues where the vast majority of top picks make it).

    Guys like Scott Mitchell, Devon Bailey, and Danny Groulx were all relatively "safe" first round picks that never really turned out. Heck, it's not even unusual for the 1st overall pick in the CFL draft to flop. Given this level of risk, it makes sense to sometimes gamble on talent even if you might not see them in the next few years.
    Its a tough one for sure as you want them to be good but if they are too good they go to the NFL.
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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    Its a tough one for sure as you want them to be good but if they are too good they go to the NFL.
    It’s actually really similar to recruiting in college basketball. The best players to recruit used to be the guys who were really talented but had one obvious flaw to their game (ie. the 6’6 power forward or the slightly unathletic point guard). A guy like Betts was a good gamble because while he’s super talented and has a great motor, he was viewed as undersized for the NFL game.

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    I'd be ok with taking O'Donnell at 13 if he is still available. We took Tevaun Smith and Arjen Colquhoun at similar points in the draft and had to wait on them a few years but in retrospect as an esks fan I am happy they made those selections when they did and feel that the few years we had to wait was worth it. I understand that it may never work out as was the case with Pasztor or it may take an unreasonable amount of time like with Charles (although even though he is older if I remember correctly he hasn't played in that many games so there could still be a lot of tread left on those tires) I think its worth the wait. For me as others have said you have to evaluate it on a case by case basis which includes an assessment of whether or not you believe the player will make the NFL (Betts being thought of as undersized and as a result worth the gamble is a good example) and what else is available at that point in the draft. The scouting staff's job is to provide input to make those decisions and IMO it should be on a case by case basis and not a hard fast rule. The decision to draft Betts didn't work out simply based on luck. Sunderland considered all of the information and opinions given to him and made a calculated decision and that's his job.
    Last edited by adb; 04-30-2020 at 01:52 PM.
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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by adb View Post
    I'd be ok with taking O'Donnell at 13 if he is still available. We took Tevaun Smith and Arjen Colquhoun at similar points in the draft and had to wait on them a few years but in retrospect as an esks fan I am happy they made those selections when they did and feel that the few years we had to wait was worth it. I understand that it may never work out as was the case with Pasztor or it may take an unreasonable amount of time like with Charles (although even though he is older if I remember correctly he hasn't played in that many games so there could still be a lot of tread left on those tires) I think its worth the wait. For me as others have said you have to evaluate it on a case by case basis which includes an assessment of whether or not you believe the player will make the NFL (Betts being thought of as undersized and as a result worth the gamble is a good example) and what else is available at that point in the draft. The scouting staff's job is to provide input to make those decisions and IMO it should be on a case by case basis and not a hard fast rule. The decision to draft Betts didn't work out simply based on luck. Sunderland considered all of the information and opinions given to him and made a calculated decision and that's his job.
    I'm excited for some actually content to discuss, feel like forever since there has been anything positive to talk about.
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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    Problem with a Canadian QB is you need a backup thats Canadian too. Literally no incentive to have a Canadian at QB.
    Why? quarterbacks aren't part of the ratio.
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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
    You're making the assumption that all "safer" CFL draft picks end up making the roster and becoming reliable players (let alone in the short-term). Every CFL pick is a gamble to a certain extent, and that's even true at the top end of the draft (which is very different from other professional leagues where the vast majority of top picks make it).

    Guys like Scott Mitchell, Devon Bailey, and Danny Groulx were all relatively "safe" first round picks that never really turned out. Heck, it's not even unusual for the 1st overall pick in the CFL draft to flop. Given this level of risk, it makes sense to sometimes gamble on talent even if you might not see them in the next few years.
    You are right, I am making an assumption. But where is it written in stone that O'Donnell will be a good player? Just because he signed in the NFL doesn't mean he is automatically going to be a good player. Lots of guys in the NFL fizzle out as well. As Looner said, the draft is a crap shoot. No guarantees that ANY player the Esks draft at #4 will be something. But all I am saying is I would much rather the Esks use a pick on a guy that they know will be coming to camp and has a shot to play in the CFL whenever that happens vs a guy who might never come to the CFL ever just like Pasztor.
    Blindly accept whatever they do and if it doesn't work out, I guess there's always next year.

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by adb View Post
    I'd be ok with taking O'Donnell at 13 if he is still available. We took Tevaun Smith and Arjen Colquhoun at similar points in the draft and had to wait on them a few years but in retrospect as an esks fan I am happy they made those selections when they did and feel that the few years we had to wait was worth it. I understand that it may never work out as was the case with Pasztor or it may take an unreasonable amount of time like with Charles (although even though he is older if I remember correctly he hasn't played in that many games so there could still be a lot of tread left on those tires) I think its worth the wait. For me as others have said you have to evaluate it on a case by case basis which includes an assessment of whether or not you believe the player will make the NFL (Betts being thought of as undersized and as a result worth the gamble is a good example) and what else is available at that point in the draft. The scouting staff's job is to provide input to make those decisions and IMO it should be on a case by case basis and not a hard fast rule. The decision to draft Betts didn't work out simply based on luck. Sunderland considered all of the information and opinions given to him and made a calculated decision and that's his job.
    I agree with you. I'd be fine if the Esks rolled the dice and drafted O'Donnell in later rounds, just not with the #4. You make a good point about Betts. At 6'3, 250, that isn't that big for a rush end in NFL standards.
    Blindly accept whatever they do and if it doesn't work out, I guess there's always next year.

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    You are right, I am making an assumption. But where is it written in stone that O'Donnell will be a good player? Just because he signed in the NFL doesn't mean he is automatically going to be a good player. Lots of guys in the NFL fizzle out as well. As Looner said, the draft is a crap shoot. No guarantees that ANY player the Esks draft at #4 will be something. But all I am saying is I would much rather the Esks use a pick on a guy that they know will be coming to camp and has a shot to play in the CFL whenever that happens vs a guy who might never come to the CFL ever just like Pasztor.
    I understand where you're coming from.

    I'm just in favour of taking calculated risks when you have the Canadian talent already on the roster to be able to handle a bust. I have no clue if O'Donnell is a guy who is even worth that risk, but it's definitely worth looking into. It would be interesting to do some sort of analysis on how many players who had already signed deals with the NFL come CFL draft day actually end up on a roster in the future.

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    I agree with you. I'd be fine if the Esks rolled the dice and drafted O'Donnell in later rounds, just not with the #4. You make a good point about Betts. At 6'3, 250, that isn't that big for a rush end in NFL standards.
    I would be happy with taking O'Donnell in the second round as he is an Alberta boy so i could see us and Calgary having interest and I doubt they take him 1st but may take a flyer on him with their 2nd rounder. Should he come north at all he could be a long term Oline starter and I would be disappointed if we didn't have him.
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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    Problem with a Canadian QB is you need a backup thats Canadian too. Literally no incentive to have a Canadian at QB.
    Why do you need a Canadian back up?

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by 56Parkies View Post
    Why? quarterbacks aren't part of the ratio.
    Quote Originally Posted by widowmaker View Post
    Why do you need a Canadian back up?
    “ The newly-ratified collective bargaining agreement has brought a long-awaited change to the status of the Canadian quarterback. A team that starts a national QB will have that player count as one of the seven national players required to be on the field with the offence. Were he to exit the game, a Canadian player would have to replace him somewhere in the offence.”

    https://www.cfl.ca/2019/05/31/oleary...an-pivots-cfl/

    My understanding was wrong but I also think you 2 are off a bit. Rourke as a starter would count but we’d need another Canadian at some position to come in if he got hurt.
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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Esks draft Tomas Jack-Kurdyla.

    I have to admit I am surprised with this pick.

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    "No dress rehearsal, this is our life" - Gord Downie

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    The guy looks small in the highlights of him, 6'4" 300 seems like an exaggeration especially the height.

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    2 (13) Edmonton Eskimos — DE Alain Pae, Ottawa

    Hasn’t played since 2017 when he recorded right tackles for loss and six sacks with the Gee-Gees. The native of Prague recently qualified for the draft after attaining his Canadian citizenship and is already 27 years of age.

    Has a great frame at six-foot-four and 240 pounds and came in as one of the draft’s biggest wildcards and he goes shockingly high here at 13. This pick is an indication to me that the Eskimos could start two Canadian defensive ends (Kwaku Boateng and Mathieu Betts) and need a backup.

    Pae might be a great player, but this is such a risky pick with so many more proven options on the board. C
    What the heck is Brock thinking here he wasn’t even in the mock draft and hast played since 2017 , why take him in the 2 Nd round wait until 8 th round so many good players here we could have taken O’Donnell

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    I've liked Sunderlands past drafts but this year so far.....WOOF!

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    I've liked Sunderlands past drafts but this year so far.....WOOF!
    How can anyone dislike the Tomas Jack-Kurdyla pick? He was listed at #2 in the most recent CFL.ca mock draft and top 5 in basically every other mock draft I could find. It seemed unlikely he would fall to the Eskimos, so it looks like Sunderland just chose the best player available. He's also been listed as the only offensive lineman who could potentially start next year that wasn't signed to an NFL roster.

    The Pae pick is certainly out of left field but whenever teams make weird picks like that earlier in the draft than you'd expect, it usually means they received word other teams were looking at selecting that player as well. O'Donnell is still floating around and if we could snag him with our 3rd round draft pick, I'd feel pretty good about what we've done so far. Asse is also still out there and at 6'7 300 pounds, he'd be a good big body to add to the mix.
    Last edited by Cerebral; 04-30-2020 at 07:56 PM.

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Anyone have a clue what is going on with Kettel Asse? He was projected to go to the Eskimos at 4th overall to us in the mock draft put out yesterday, and now he's still available going into the 6th round. I have no clue what he's like as a prospect, but at 6'7, 300 pounds, you'd think a team would have taken a shot on him earlier in the draft.

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
    How can anyone dislike the Tomas Jack-Kurdyla pick? He was listed at #2 in the most recent CFL.ca mock draft and top 5 in basically every other mock draft I could find. It seemed unlikely he would fall to the Eskimos, so it looks like Sunderland just chose the best player available. He's also been listed as the only offensive lineman who could potentially start next year that wasn't signed to an NFL roster.

    The Pae pick is certainly out of left field but whenever teams make weird picks like that earlier in the draft than you'd expect, it usually means they received word other teams were looking at selecting that player as well. O'Donnell is still floating around and if we could snag him with our 3rd round draft pick, I'd feel pretty good about what we've done so far. Asse is also still out there and at 6'7 300 pounds, he'd be a good big body to add to the mix.
    As of the time of picks in the draft, those two picks were the first two taken from those respective positions (correct me if I am wrong - nvm corrected myself....2nd interior DL taken)

    To me that means BS got the guys he wanted there.

    Unfortunately Macchocia jumped us by 2 spots in the 3rd round to get O'Donnell

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
    Anyone have a clue what is going on with Kettel Asse? He was projected to go to the Eskimos at 4th overall to us in the mock draft put out yesterday, and now he's still available going into the 6th round. I have no clue what he's like as a prospect, but at 6'7, 300 pounds, you'd think a team would have taken a shot on him earlier in the draft.
    Wouldnt mind taking a late flyer on Claypool, even if it becomes a wasted pick.
    Last edited by Opus; 04-30-2020 at 09:34 PM.
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    Opus is offline Then start asking the right ******* questions.

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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Dante Brown may be a sleeper at 5th round....the Div2 stats over the last two years are pretty eyebrow raising.
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    Re: The CFL draft - April 30th

    Quote Originally Posted by Opus View Post
    Dante Brown may be a sleeper at 5th round....the Div2 stats over the last two years are pretty eyebrow raising.
    Yeah, he looks really interesting - some long field goals, including a big 56 yarder in the playoffs to end a game. He also has dreadlocks down to his shoulders and has experience playing running back and defensive back - definitely not a stereotypical kicker! Reading up on him, he didn't make Division 1 because some of his classes didn't transfer over and it wasn't due to lack of skill.

    - - - Updated - - -

    We just drafted Nicholas Summach, a 6'8 330 pound offensive lineman. At this point, I think we're just entered into some sort of contest to have the biggest offensive line in the history of the CFL.

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