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Thread: Around the CFL - 2021

  1. #121
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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    IMO, this shows the Randy has ZERO plans and is hoping someone else will do all the work for him.

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    Does Ambrosie even have any real power?

    The CFL commish jobs strikes me as a job that really doesn't have a lot of power. The teams owners have all the power and the commishes job is just to be the media guy. To say whatever the owners want him to say and do what they want to do. I say this because has there been a Commish that has instituted any real change in the last 20 yrs, probably longer? All these guys come in talking all big to start and in the end, it's the same game as I remember 25 yrs ago. They might tweak a rule slightly, or throw up some lame slogan, tweak the logo but its basically the same. The business model never changes. Still a gate driven league where the fan base is aging. The teams that have always struggled money wise, are pretty much the ones struggling now. They might have a short lived boost but generally it's the same teams. The teams that drew squat 20 yrs ago, still draw squat now.

    None of the rules really change. The ratio was a problem 20 yrs ago and it's still a problem now. If a team loses 1 or 2 critical Canadians, more times than not their season is done. If anything its more of a problem because more Canadians are getting drafted or signed by the NFL or guy won't play in the CFL because they don't want to risk injury. So if anything the talent level might be worse. Most teams barely have enough talent to fill out starters, forget back ups. Attendance is dropping, the young people aren't coming. Did they do anything to address that? Not really. The league still pumps the whole "tradition and we are Canadian, we are tough" angle. It's been talked about for how many years about moving up the schedule to maximize our weather and has it happened. Nope. We are tough remember.

    So I wonder if Ambrosie can actually do anything? Is the whole CFL world his idea or the idea of some rich guys thinking they can make a quick shot of cash from other countries. Now this XFL. what is the benefit other than potentially getting a shot of cash from it?
    Blindly accept whatever they do and if it doesn't work out, I guess there's always next year.

  3. #123
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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionq View Post
    Does Ambrosie even have any real power?

    The CFL commish jobs strikes me as a job that really doesn't have a lot of power. The teams owners have all the power and the commishes job is just to be the media guy. To say whatever the owners want him to say and do what they want to do. I say this because has there been a Commish that has instituted any real change in the last 20 yrs, probably longer? All these guys come in talking all big to start and in the end, it's the same game as I remember 25 yrs ago. They might tweak a rule slightly, or throw up some lame slogan, tweak the logo but its basically the same. The business model never changes. Still a gate driven league where the fan base is aging. The teams that have always struggled money wise, are pretty much the ones struggling now. They might have a short lived boost but generally it's the same teams. The teams that drew squat 20 yrs ago, still draw squat now.

    None of the rules really change. The ratio was a problem 20 yrs ago and it's still a problem now. If a team loses 1 or 2 critical Canadians, more times than not their season is done. If anything its more of a problem because more Canadians are getting drafted or signed by the NFL or guy won't play in the CFL because they don't want to risk injury. So if anything the talent level might be worse. Most teams barely have enough talent to fill out starters, forget back ups. Attendance is dropping, the young people aren't coming. Did they do anything to address that? Not really. The league still pumps the whole "tradition and we are Canadian, we are tough" angle. It's been talked about for how many years about moving up the schedule to maximize our weather and has it happened. Nope. We are tough remember.

    So I wonder if Ambrosie can actually do anything? Is the whole CFL world his idea or the idea of some rich guys thinking they can make a quick shot of cash from other countries. Now this XFL. what is the benefit other than potentially getting a shot of cash from it?
    If handled properly significant exposure to the US market which could result in much bigger dollars from sources such as television not only in the short term but in the long term if the XFL lasts for more than the few years that other startup leagues have lasted.

    But that's the big hurdle that makes me nervous...will it be handled properly. In the last few years when discussing new ways to generate money for the CFL I've always been more in favour of expanding into the US market than CFL 2.0. (IMO that's where the real money is not in places like Germany) but I've always maintained that it needed to be done carefully by picking the right markets. Cities with no NFL teams closer to the Canada US border that are more familiar with Canada (Portland not Shreveport). Instilling a version of the import ratio rule for US teams (meaning for example that Portland would have to have 7 starters that were from the state of Washington). And the CFL rules would have to remain intact.

    If this latest talk does result in a scenario where we are playing games between the 2 leagues then I hope some of these issues are looked at otherwise eventually it would become non competitive since the XFL would be able to stock their entire rosters from a much larger pool of talent and I for one am not wiling to give up rules ensuring that Canadians are on CFL rosters. If it comes to that then we might as well just get sucked up by the XFL and start playing 4 down football because at that point I'll probably just stop watching just like I currently am not watching the NFL.
    Last edited by adb; 03-10-2021 at 03:09 PM.
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  4. #124
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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by adb View Post
    If handled properly exposure to the US market which could result in significant dollars not only in the short term but in the long term if the XFL lasts for longer than the few years that other startup leagues have lasted.

    But that's the big hurdle that makes me nervous...will it be handled properly. In the last few years when discussing new ways to generate money I've always been more in favour of expanding into the US market than CFL 2.0. (IMO that's where the real money is not in places like Germany) but I've always maintained that it needed to be done carefully by picking the right markets. Cities with no NFL teams closer to the Canada US border that are more familiar with Canada (Portland not Shreveport). Instilling a version of the import ratio rule for US teams (meaning for example that Portland would have to have 7 starters that were from the state of Washington). And the CFL rules would have to remain intact.

    If this latest talk does result in a scenario where we are playing games between the 2 leagues then I hope some of these issues are looked at otherwise eventually it would become non competitive since the XFL would be able to stock their entire rosters from a much larger pool of talent and I for one am not wiling to give up rules ensuring that Canadians are on CFL rosters. If it comes to that then we might as well just get sucked up by the XFL and start playing 4 down football because at that point I'll probably just stop watching just like I currently am not watching the NFL.
    I don't see how they gain any traction in the US unless the rules are changed to be more inline with the NFL. The big one being 4 downs. You can have the extra player, the motion, the no yards, bigger field, etc, etc and go to 4 downs. The 60 something will be dead set against that but I think if they want to appeal to younger fans, they need to get closer to the NFL which is big even up here. Better wifi in the stadium, lame ad campaigns or all other half ass attempts won't do it.

    They also need to cut costs and I think the easiest way to do it is to cut the Canadian ratio. Other than the QB, Canadians usually make up most of the big salary players on every team for a simple reason. Supply and demand. There are way, way, way less good enough Canadians out there so you have to pay the good ones to keep them. A team can go out and find a good American Olineman, probably pay him less than half what you pay a starting Canadian and get as good if not better play from him. I would still keep it but I would the Canadian ratio significantly so all of a sudden the supply goes up, driving the price down for. Teams would then have enough quality starters plus equally good back ups so when injuries happen, you aren't putting in Canadians who flat out aren't good enough and only on the team because of their passport. This would bring up the overall talent level of the whole league improving the game and appeal to younger fans who see the CFL as so grossly inferior, it's not worth their time or money. The CFL needs to get to a point talent wise where younger people will go to see it because it's in their backyard, they want to scratch that live football itch and going to see an NFL game isn't possible. Everyone of us can go look at the Esks roster and pick out a whole ton of Canadian players who we know darn well are only on the team because of where they are born and who have no business being starters yet they are because there is no choice or better option.

    I am sure some people in here will object and talk to me about grass roots and development and Canadians are improving, etc, etc. This is not a new problem, it's been a problem for decades. Yes the talent in Canada is improving but its not impacting the CFL much because those better Canadians are getting jobs down south now.
    Blindly accept whatever they do and if it doesn't work out, I guess there's always next year.

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021



    - - - Updated - - -

    Hope, at the end of the day connects us all, no matter how different we are

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    When it comes to the protocols for provinces, wouldn't it make more sense to submit proposals to the provinces you know will be the toughest to approve first? If you can jump through all the hoops for the really tough provinces, then it will be rubber stamped by a province like Alberta who's more lenient. Seems backwards to me by going to the easy ones first.
    Blindly accept whatever they do and if it doesn't work out, I guess there's always next year.

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    Two of the more "relaxed" provinces would fit more realistic provincial situations country-wide when it's time to start playing football. Also one of them, has extensive experience in drawing up considerations for bubble zones and athlete protocols. I suspect Edmonton and Winnipeg would be short listed for bubble cities if they need to go that route for part of the year.
    Hope, at the end of the day connects us all, no matter how different we are

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    Hope, at the end of the day connects us all, no matter how different we are

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    If we lose what makes the cfl ... the cfl then what’s the point.. the xfl will have the cfl on its own death knell as fast as the xfl did in 2020..

    To lose 100’s of years of integrity is def not the answer

    Now a partnership where players and coaches can be affiliated etc might work but the leagues have to remain seperate. Imho

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by cmbuk View Post
    If we lose what makes the cfl ... the cfl then what’s the point.. the xfl will have the cfl on its own death knell as fast as the xfl did in 2020..

    To lose 100’s of years of integrity is def not the answer

    Now a partnership where players and coaches can be affiliated etc might work but the leagues have to remain seperate. Imho
    Exactly.

    A new football league in the States will not fly, be it the CFL, XFL or a hybrid.

    Is Ambrosie getting star struck by the Rock? That post by Dwayne Johnson is very Harold Hill-esque. Don't trust an ex-Stampeder.

    I think it's a money issue and the CFL is looking toward a loan shark. Not good.
    Last edited by Uncle Bobby; 03-11-2021 at 09:53 AM.

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    If they start changing things like the downs and adding another 20 seconds per down...I'm done. My old CFL soul can't take much more of this.
    Once an Eskimo, ALWAYS an Eskimo.

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    Agree if they change the CFL game, I'm out.

    I have zero faith in Ambrosie what so ever.. hes been useless since he showed up. Training camps open soon, players are tweeting wondering if/when that will happen, and all the commish is doing is looking at the XFL. I've prepared myself for the death of the CFL, and that will 100% be on Ambrosie and his lack of ****ing doing anything.

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    I understand the logic in reaching out and sharing ideas and potential ways to save each of their leagues. Personally, I'd rather see a financially pared back CFL retaining all the good stuff about it vs changing our game completely and rolling the dice based on the faith of a twice failed US football league. Having said that, I am open to discussions and I hope they bring some solutions to both leagues. Like the song say, "don't know what you got, til it's gone". Everyone in this league needs to fight for it any way they can. That may mean some sacrifices, but let's not strip away everything that makes it unique and our league.
    Hope, at the end of the day connects us all, no matter how different we are

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    I understand the logic in reaching out and sharing ideas and potential ways to save each of their leagues. Personally, I'd rather see a financially pared back CFL retaining all the good stuff about it vs changing our game completely and rolling the dice based on the faith of a twice failed US football league. Having said that, I am open to discussions and I hope they bring some solutions to both leagues. Like the song say, "don't know what you got, til it's gone". Everyone in this league needs to fight for it any way they can. That may mean some sacrifices, but let's not strip away everything that makes it unique and our league.
    Push come to shove I wouldn't change much about our fantastic league but if sticking to our guns is going to result in the CFL going away, I think we need to look at alternatives. The world is always evolving and if you don't change your business model to adapt, you will go away.
    Hoping there is a 2021 season as there is nothing better than a football game on a warm sunny day at Commonwealth!!!!!!!

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Looner View Post
    Push come to shove I wouldn't change much about our fantastic league but if sticking to our guns is going to result in the CFL going away, I think we need to look at alternatives. The world is always evolving and if you don't change your business model to adapt, you will go away.
    Yes... save it by whatever means possible. I'm just saying, don't throw it all away in a panic if you don't have to.

    An example for me:
    As a fan, I enjoy WHL & BCHL games more than NHL games on a per dollar paid basis. For my entertainment, I will watch junior hockey live.
    If it comes down to a financially restructured CFL product (same rules, smaller budgets) vs a four-down NFL rules based game, I'd prefer to watch the game I fell in love with and identify as Canadian. I think if you give me four down ball, I'd rather just watch the best version of it on TV with the NFL. I'd rather pay for a watered down CFL product vs a watered down US product.
    These are just rough examples. There is a lot of room to give on both sides of my "line in the sand" as it were.
    Hope, at the end of the day connects us all, no matter how different we are

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    I understand some peoples feelings about being resistant to change but this league is dying how it is. Attendance is down across the league and has been declining for years. It's common place for multiple teams to lose money every year. For lots of other teams just breaking even is considered a huge win. Doesn't matter what business you are, the goal should never be just to break even. That isn't healthy. Like it or not, the league needs to do something different.
    Blindly accept whatever they do and if it doesn't work out, I guess there's always next year.

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    Saving the league in any way shape or form is the end result we all desire. It needs to be financially viable and it needs to grow its fan base. Changing to US rules and merging with a second rate US product should not be the only option, but it appears to be the only one on the table right now. Our league had a year and a half to consider strategies. I hope they have some of their own to evaluate and build on as well and that those come to light in the coming months.
    Hope, at the end of the day connects us all, no matter how different we are

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    I'd like to think that the league has spent all this time off reevaluating things, improving how they operate, their business model, etc but I am not confident they have. It's been 1.5 yrs and what have they said so far? It's been crickets up until this story came out of the blue. I thought not playing at all was a mistake. The CFL was already low on a lot of peoples care list before Covid, going primarily silent like they did for as long as they did is not a good thing.
    Blindly accept whatever they do and if it doesn't work out, I guess there's always next year.

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    I'm with Hugo in that I'd rather watch scaled back, same rules ball that's ours...than a lower level NFL clone/wannabe. Would really hate to see the ratio get thrown out the window as well. It just makes our League seem more accessible to the everyday guy.
    Once an Eskimo, ALWAYS an Eskimo.

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    What the partnership is with the XFL is still undefined. It is just a discussion at this point.

    In my view, any merger with that league is the quick end to the CFL. But it may be a last gasp if the CFL is already doomed because of COVID.

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    I'm hoping that Ambrosie's interest with these discussions is focused on the very real and ongoing problem the CFL has in attracting online attention and followers, and translating that into revenue streams. The "Rock" has mastered that aspect. Maybe he can share some strategies. There is a growing market in younger groups for online "engagement". I hope something beneficial comes through a technical younger approach. I have no way of judging; I'm a fossil.

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    Interesting theory



    Hope, at the end of the day connects us all, no matter how different we are

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    Interesting theory



    Don't like this. Why would a team want to compete with itself and why would we ever consider having football played in Canada in February-April.

    I'm thinking a lot of people might be jumping the shark a bit here in thinking that the only end game could be the XFL and CFL becoming 1 league. You can guarantee the XFL doesn't want to compete against the NFL so they wouldn't want want to do our schedule and CFL logistically could never accommodate the XFLs schedule. I'd be shocked if this led to anything more than a partnership in cross-promotion and looser regulations around player and staff movement between the leagues to maximize the available talent pool.
    Last edited by bone; 03-12-2021 at 01:13 PM.

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021



    Hope, at the end of the day connects us all, no matter how different we are

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021



    Some very solid points in this article.
    Hope, at the end of the day connects us all, no matter how different we are

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    3 Downs protect our field and motion. Those are deal breakers in my opinion don't touch these and yes this could be good for both leagues.
    Run the Ball up the gut around the horn it does not matter. We run we win what is so difficult to understand.

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post


    Some very solid points in this article.
    Great article. Perfectly states my position on this partnership. I don't understand why everyone is so quick to think this is about changing the game, it shouldn't be. There'd be too many major hurdles to make this a joint league that probably wouldn't help either side much. It should be about better cross-promotion and exposure for both leagues.

    For me, I didn't watch any of the recent spring leagues, but if there were a handful of Eskimos playing down there, I'd be much more inclined to tune in and see how they are doing and I'd imagine fans of XFL teams would start watching a bit more CFL if they knew there were players that could very well be helping their team a couple months after the Grey Cup match.

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    Other big news today: Rogers buying Shaw
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/rog...shaw-1.5949825

    I post this here as Shaw has been a big supporter of the CFL lately. Premier Grey Cup sponsor, etc.
    Meanwhile, Rogers has been less CFL friendly, as broadcast rights are owned by rival Bell / TSN.

    So curious what this will mean. If the Shaw agreement has expired, then one less corporate sponsor?
    If not, are we going to see the next Grey Cup as "Rogers present the Grey Cup, on TSN"?

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugoagogo View Post
    Saving the league in any way shape or form is the end result we all desire. It needs to be financially viable and it needs to grow its fan base. Changing to US rules and merging with a second rate US product should not be the only option, but it appears to be the only one on the table right now. Our league had a year and a half to consider strategies. I hope they have some of their own to evaluate and build on as well and that those come to light in the coming months.
    I can't recall offhand who penned the article last week but they felt that switching to 4 down rules would be a fool's errand (my term). He didn't use that exact phrase but that was the gist of his thoughts. He opined that most of the critics, detractors and those who otherwise turn their noses up at the CFL on this side of the 49th do so because they hold the NFL to be the Holy Grail. Those same people likely showed similar disdain for the XFL (both versions), AAF, USFL, WFL etc. Why? Because they aren't the NFL in terms of glitz, glamour, money and power. When it gets down to it no pro league matches up to the NFL and that includes MLB, the NBA and the NHL. IMO switching to 4 down rules would only serve to alienate a significant portion of existing fans of Canada's game, CFL football. At the same time it would not win over any of those same CFL detractors. They would be just as critical of a 4 down CFL as they were of the 3 down variety again for the simple reason that it's not the NFL. They would equate it to an ECHL version of the NHL or AA baseball.

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    Re: Around the CFL - 2021

    Hope, at the end of the day connects us all, no matter how different we are

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